me too…on both points.
Jim that is well stated. This is about the same as I would look at it. This should take the guess work out of how far a car can go before it’s a rebody.
Steven
Question, How much would it de-value a total restored GTE, if it had an identical replacement engine, just not the one that it was born with?
I would expect that because the fewer there are the more each is worth.
If you can move VIN numbers from body to body then the rare car survival rate could be 100%.
Question, How much would it de-value a total restored GTE, if it had an identical replacement engine, just not the one that it was born with?
Now we get into the area of Numbers Matching, Date Code Correct, Service Replacement, and so on down the line.
I would love to have Jim, Royce, Don, Bill, John, and other Cougar heavyweights weigh in on this.
I take a “kinder/gentler” approach to this issue. Let me add a few other points/ask a few questions: 1) Would you rather see a GTE that is damaged beyond repair, unsafe to drive and never able to take the torque of even a 6 cyl engine crushed? I’m sure a few people would insist on it. What if that car was re-bodied, returned to the show circuit and inspired current and future car folks to embrace the hobby? 2) I’m not insisting that a re-body sell for the same money as a genuine car, but I am asking for it to look like and act like one. This car does that very well. Very, very well. I, personally, get aroused at the sight of this car. The thought of taking a spirited ride with an expendable car is very appealing to me. Carroll Shelby would agree. How many GTEs never see the light of day due to their owners not wanting to risk the chipped paint? There’s a special place in the car hobby for a car like this. That place is a “drive-em” event at national events, squealing tires on Woodward Avenue and sliding the car sideways after a big, white smoky burnout through a remote intersection; preferably on a clear stretch of highway. It has been said that joy in life comes not from owning toys, but playing with them. GAME ON!
3) Re-bodying is not unique to GTEs, it is just more honest. That is a good thing. What percentage of high performance cars that cross the auction block have always had that perfect under carriage, die strait radiator core support and perfect wheel wells? Don’t be naïve, the answer is likely to be less than 50%. I’m not saying this changes things.
4) Think about where the hobby/society is heading. Time changes most things. Does the 1930’s hot rod crowd care if they’re flying the original title/tags on that '31 coupe with the 450 HP 351 stroker motor? They bought the title out of a shoe box at a swap meet.
5)What type of success is Dynacorn meeting with their re-production bodies? They say they’re licensed by Ford, GM, etc. If it’s ok in some cases to use a re-production body (I’m not a federal lawyer) made by an aftermarket manufacturer, surely, at some level you can be OK with using a body/parts made “back in the day” in the Motherland. Our hobby continues to evolve. Can you envision the year 2035?
6) Cougars are, to me, like family. The greater the numbers that come around (good, bad or in-between) the better. Car shows, like the Thanksgiving dinner table, are a more of an “alive” place with larger numbers and participation. There’s a place set for re-bodies GTEs, kinda like the surfer dude that brings a bag of chips. He’s got great stories after a few beers.
I totally agree with you, 427XR7. I am not saying I don’t like the car nor wouldn’t it be a kick in the pants to own and drive. All I am asking is for honesty and clarity regarding what the car is and isn’t. The seller is clear about that if you read the ad carefully.
I agree, too, about the state of provenance in other cars - hotrods, etc. IMO, again, a Brookville bodied car on a TCI frame is not a 1932 FORD. It is cool to look at, etc., but call me crazy, it is not a Ford. Call me crazy, but I think this is a wonderful 1968 Mercury Cougar that has a 427 out of a GT-E, and looks killer in all its GT-E trim.
I do think it is telling that whenever this car comes up for discussion it is always referred to as the “Rebodied GT-E.”
Now Brookville/TCI cars bring as much money as original Henry cars do, so who knows? We shall see what the market will bear.
Edit: One further thought - I guess what is bugging me is I agree with you that this is a car that should be driven in the way you describe. It is why I said in my response to the original post that it should be $29K. Well probably more like 50 or 60, like Jim said. At 129 Large, nobody (pardon the pun) will do that.
I think it is pretty safe to assume this one is never going to sell for $129K. If by chance any one hears of a buyer willing to pay that… could you send him over to my place first.
No kidding!
If you are changing the entire front clip I would think you are also changing the entire cowl which is part of the front clip, plus the floors and all other things Jim listed you would have to figure the back of the car needed a lot of attention also rails trunk floors etc. What Iam getting at is you just changed most of the unibody in the front clip and floors plus the roof if you could only salvage part of the rear rails you may as well call the car a rebody. Unfortunately there are some cool cars that did not age well.
could be for NASCAR homo-ligation.
Folks,
So after seeing these comments I thought I’d share my views – as a bidder on this car, this year at R/S. I was on the floor bidding with interest until two brokers began to do battle with each other and ran up to the $56,500 clearing price. (I snapped a photo of the auction board after “sold,sold sold!!!”)
Here’s how I viewed the auction and the value – for better or worse. I can’t tell you in general what a rebody is worth, only how I valued it.
First, of course, my affection for 68s is undeniable. I was attracted to this car for its components, not only for the mystique of its GTE name. I could overlook paint flaws (like spraying the fenders with the extensions still on) and could fix some silly errors (like the upside down bumper gaskets). But with my eye, and that of others with better eyes, the inside and outside of the car was very close.
More importantly, I could certainly live with – maybe even revel in – the stigma that might follow a rebody, especially as I put my foot into the cross-bolted 427 (yup, we got a photo of the cross bolts as well.) I’m a man of humble means and this car, with a numbers matching drive train, rear end and all the right trim, might have been my best chance to live out my dream. I would have driven the heck out of that car!! I would have proudly explained the uniqueness of the engine and body style to anyone faintly interested and with research and confirmation, would have unabashedly shared the story of how the original body had met its maker.
The car was advertised (this time) absolutely correctly. Everyone who cared to look should have known it was a rebody. That said, a big flag went up for me regarding registration – one that I could not resolve before the gavel hit. I felt that even in chop-shop California, I could successfully register the car, but only if the donor VIN was still on the registration. I was less concerned with the door tag or window VIN (maybe foolishly). My inability to confirm the registered VIN (I blame my procrastination, not any fault of Russo) affected my willingness to pay.
So how does a guy set a offer limit under these circumstances? Let’s call it an Adjusted Sum of the Parts calculation. Worst case for me would have been to buy it and not be able to register it in CA – a possibility I could not rule out as I tossed and turned the night before the auction. So I tried to place a value on the drive train, parts and pieces. To the sellers chagrin, I ignored the cost of labor to get the car into its present state. Then, I adjusted it for my personal “wow” factor. Needless to say, with that calculus, I could not come up to more than the $56k closing price.
I hope the broker finds a buyer. For the benefit of my GTE-friends, I hope someone pays a lot for it. But most important, I hope the buyer knows what he/she has bought and drives it until it needs another restoration.
Mark -
Thanks for your post and for sharing such a good perspective. You sound like a sober and thoughtful fellow (typical Cougar person) who came to a sober and thoughtful decision. It is tough to keep to your limit at an auction, and I applaud you for that and for listening to your intuition. How many times have we all regretted the times we didn’t.
Interesting that you and Jim P. came to very much the same conclusion regarding the car’s value.