So far the Holley on the old barge has done great. I actually hope that continues. I REALLY like the Summit carb. Annular boosters based on the 4100 so linkage hooks up, clear sight windows. My only complaint, and it isn’t as much a complaint as really using something that would be more a home on a bigger engine, is the dual feed design REALLY swallows the intake on my little 289.
For that reason alone, something like an 1850 Holley (if the one I have on the barge proves reliable)or an Edelbrock carb will probably find a home on my Cougar. Also, you need a spacer between the Summit carb and performer 289 intake as the accelerator pump housing will hit the intake runner. Performance wise, it does just fine, although mine was jetted a little too lean.
I may have asked this, Caleb, but do you still have the black '69 as well as your latest purchase?
Black or white, night or day, hot or cold, vanilla or chocolate, go with what has worked for you. Myself, it is Holley or Holley based design weather it is on a GM, Chrysler or FORD…and I have all three, as well as other makes.
Guitar 74 I still have the black one. Need to decide what parts to keep vs how to best get value for the old one. In the middle of swapping the performer intake and quicl fuel carb right now.
Ford and GM ran Holley carburetors on all their best street machines with the highest horsepower. Because they were better and faster. And reliable as hell. Your story is silly, because Holley makes the best carburetors on the market. I’ve been using Holley carburetors on all of my Cougars since the early 1970’s. It has been my experience in hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of miles using them on my daily drivers that they last virtually forever with nothing more than routine fuel filter and air filter changes. Which is true of any carburetor, made by any company.
The difference is, a Holley carburetor, correctly chosen for the application, will deliver better mileage and performance than any other brand.
Bottom line is that the best carb is the one that you are comfortable with, can tune properly and works well for your needs.
After all, it is a rather simple and crude implement for mixing air & fuel to suit the changing demands of an engine. The laws of gas dynamics & physics apply equally to all carburetors. As long as your carb can cruise near stoichiometric ideal of 14:7 (or a bit higher), enrich to 11:1-12:1 when your engine demands it & seamlessly transition to all air fuel ratios in between - the carb is working.
All the rest is hype, marketing puffery and just plain old pig-headery.
Myself? I’ve grown weary of carbs. As I’ve grown out of typewriters, slide rules and bias ply tires. Going to EFI on everything. It’s my birthday.
Gyrhead happy birthday. Most of what you’re saying is totally true. There is definately a big difference between an $800 carb or a $200 one, I can’t agree that it’s all matketing hype.
While I am always intrigued by bolt on efi and dare I say love LS swaps in a lot of applications, my wife likes to remind me when I ask her opinion is that “its ugly and who cares about driveability, fuel economy, or reliability, it’s a 50 year old toy you only drive in the summer. Isn’t half the point to, work on it and that it’s old?”
And just a side bar, biased ply tires are still the best tire for stick cars when it comes to racing. They haven’t gone extinct yet.
With the crap they sell us for gas the case for EFI gets better every day. I just had three of my Cougar out for a little cruise before it gets too hot. Two of them are exhibiting carb issues that are related to ethanol in gas. As the technology gets better and cheaper for EFI retro fits it is not going to make sense to anything else for a driver.
The GT-E is running great until I get into high speed cruise when it has an intermittent miss, like fuel starvation. Probably the sock in the tank has melted or the rear two barrels in the carb are running lean due to erosion of the carb body… The CJ G is doing that intermittent way rich thing when the o-rings on the needle and seat start to crack and fail. I am going to replace the sock with a piece of rubber hose that will reach as far down as the sock so I won’t run out of gas early. I am going to start using those carb rebuild kits for running pure alcohol and see if they hold up. And yes Edelbrock carbs have issues with ethanol as well. You ought to see that the accelerator pump looks like after too much ethanol exposure.
Tell that to the guys who race in F.A.S.T. If I took anyone’s word, including yours, over my own experience it would be akin to madness. Like I said, time will tell in the Holley in the Galaxie. But MY OWN experience, not someone else’s brand loyalty has shaped my opinion between the two. That and the unwillingness to resolve a clear QC issue on a new carb. Something that I HAVEN’T had with eddy. Neither from a quality, performance, driveability, OR customer service issue. In fact, when I sent them a pic of a burr on my 400 Cleveland intake, I not only got an apology, but the offer of a replacement intake. All over something that I nibbled off in a second with a hit of a file. Something I have NEVER gotten from Holley. I’ll go even further to clarify that they basically told me that since I had installed the carb, that any warranty expressed or implied was null and void. So THAT, and the fact that until this current Holley on my '65, my experience has been that they have been a leaky, piece of crap that would barely hold a tune after a trip to the grocery store, has helped to shape my opinion of the carb and the company.
So if your opinion on my take is that it is a “silly story”, then that is your constitutionally guaranteed right. Just remember what opinions are like, and how much I actually give a s%&t about yours. I can get nasty, insulting, and personal as well Mr. Keyboard warrior.
I ran the Factory Stock and Pure Stock Muscle Car Drags for many years myself. Like FAST, you have to run what the factory provided, be it a Rochester Quadrajet, a Holley, or a Carter AFB. You can’t run an aftermarket carburetor no matter what brand you prefer.
There’s only one way you can end up with a leaky poor running carburetor. It points to a mechanic who does not understand what he is working on. It simply doesn’t matter what brand of carburetor we are talking about - any and all of them will fail miserably if there’s an inept person working on it.
After all of the reading on this topic I have come away with two things. 1- People differ on which carburetor is best. 2- People are passionate about their view. That’s what make the Classic Cougar Community so great.
Steven
PS. I do have a third take away from this topic. 3- Royce your LS swap picture is funny as heck. Well done sir!
I must be the only guy who never had a problem with making a 4300 run slick as a smelt, and giving good throttle response all over the tach. I’ve owned both the early little one, and the later 600 CFM one which I rebuilt to run in the long-forgotten 1972-3 NHRA Pure Stock.
Interesting read; I’ve not used a Holly or Edelbrock. But…there’s a big difference between carburetor performance in racing conditions vice overall drivability. One carb may be great for racing but absolute crap on the street and vice versa. It’s unfair to compare carbs used in FAST competition to street driving, IMHO.
Here’s something I think we can all agree on-
When needing or wanting a new carb, stay away from the used ones as found at swap meets unless it’s for spare parts.Lots of buggered up carbs out there that are “ready to run”.Used carbs can be a black hole unless you know for sure that it wasn’t messed with as from a car buddy that’s gone to a different tune or EFI.It may be easier in the long run just to buy a new one if need be.
I thought I was losing my mind, but I’ve been experiencing the same symptoms. Have always fancied myself a very good tuner - but the recent crop of drivability issues have me tearing out my hair. Not to mention the BRUTAL heat soak / vapor lock symptoms in heavy summer traffic. Damn that Ethanol!!
