Would you do it?

Cougar Community Classic Cougar Maintenance Restoration and Repair
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So we finally found a place we really like out here with a fully capable body shop (currently restoring one of the Van Andel’s el caminos) and mechanical shop that can restore this cat to its former glory. Our Cougar looks great from 20 feet away but when you get closer you can see how bad the lines on the car are, and the bondo is wavy and it’s basically a mess, same with the suspension and other issues. They said how they will do it is basically any bad sections (guy said fenders definitely need replacing) will be replaced with either healthy donor parts or brand new parts, and the car will essentially be a brand new cat. We want to do a resto-mod on this car, so the suspension will be updated to a newer style, with updated brakes and power steering, while still using the cleveland thats in it, along with the 4 speed top loader sitting in our garage. But it’s gonna be around 20k to get the car to this point body-wise. Otherwise this cat is in pretty rough shape the way it sits. Rear end thumps, it pulls to the left and it still misfires, bondo galore, etc.

Would you do it? We don’t think we could do all the work they are offering (body work especially), at the quality they do it, but also its a lot of money. I tried convincing myself that I couldnt buy a new muscle car for under 35k with good performance options (aka a nice V8 vs the standard V6s they throw in them), and we also don’t plan on selling the cat anytime soon, but its also tempting to sell this car, take a hit, and move on to one that is in better shape and road worthy.

Do you think it’s worth it? After it’s all said and done, we’d be at 28k spent on this cat, and more issues could arise. They said the frame on this car is solid as hell, and the owner even worked on them in ford dealerships when they were first built. Kind of makes us sad thinking about selling it, especially since on the way to this place to show them the car, the hideaway headlights actually decided they had some life in them and went down, which put a smile on our faces, but this cat needs work, and a lot of it. The plan would be they could do the body and suspension work, and we’d probably take the engine and rebuild it ourselves while they are working on the rest of the car.

Is the price justifiable? They said how it will work is we will be setting up meetings 3-4 times a month with them to go over progress and what way we want to go next with certain stuff, and honestly just from touring the place (and these guys have awards upon awards sitting in boxes), and meeting them we know these guys are the real deal, they’ve been there for almost 40 years, but its a lot of money. But at the same time it will be a new car that we will get 20+ years out of before having to worry about anything.

So what would you do? We do have the money but we aren’t big money makers, and it’s not gonna be cheap, and surprises could show up once they strip it down. The car does have a solid straight frame going for it, and they put it up on the lift in front of us, and it’s pretty clean underneath (even the floor pans). Basically options are go for it or sell the car and take a big hit… This car needs a lot of work. We do like the thought of being able to bring it to car shows, and have a car we can use all the time knowing that it’s very solid from a drive-ability stand-point. We have always wanted to participate in shows, and we’d be ending up with a beautiful car, with NO rust. It would also be a car we could pass on to future generations and keep in the family for years to come.

Would you do it?

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It will typically cost at least $20K at a reputable body shop to do show quality paint and body. This doesn’t include any suspension, trim, drivetrain, interior, etc. A typical show quality full restoration or restomod is going to run between $50K & $80K if you drop it off and pick it up when it’s done.
I would need to see a much more detailed list of what they are doing for the $20K and what materials they are using for paint to determine if it’s fair. Regardless of the quoted price, you should be prepared to double that figure for unknown problems and the while you’re at it… stuff that will inevitably happen.

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Not to mention, that’s really a question only you can answer.

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I really don’t know of any other hobby where people expect to make money in the process… Financially, how does a bass boat, trailer, and a truck to pull it with, ever pay back in fish. Or going to see pretty much any kind of pro sports. How about playing golf or tennis? I think we are pretty lucky in that we at least have something to show for our efforts at the end of the day. Maybe even something to pass down to the kids. Our cars, if we maintain them well, can actually increase in value. As hobbies go this one seems to be pretty rewarding, but it is not for every one. If you enjoy working on the car, and driving the car, then investing in the car for things you can’t do makes sense. If that isn’t your style then you have to think twice, buying a fishing boat doesn’t make much sense if hate to fish.

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Then again taking advice from crazy people may be its own reward!

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Well we will be doing most of the engine work ourselves. Essentially he 20k is for just the body and paint. The interior on this car is beautiful. Drivetrain and other stuff we haven’t gotten there yet haha

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If your funds to do this are entirely discretionary, why not? That’s what discretionary income is for: your enjoyment and not to make money or a profit. If you are paying for this with non-discretionary income, the answer is a positive, absolutely, unequivocally NO!

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Been there…done that. The answer is NO. It’s won’t be the same car when you’re “done” (which is never), which is not necessarily a good thing. And when (not if, no matter what one thinks now) you or a relative sells, you’ll get 50-cents on the dollar that you’ve spend–IF you’re lucky. As someone above noted, hobbies aren’t intended to be profitable, maybe unless you’re The Donald. Think of something like golf–clubs, cloths, carts, greens fees, whatever–I don’t know, and I don’t play, but you’re not getting any of that money you spent on that hobby back. You are spending money to enjoy what you’re doing, and that’s what it’s all about.

Back to the Cougar…I vote to either buy a car that someone else spent a bunch of money on (at 50-cents on the dollars that HE spent) to add to your collection, or sell your car and take that money, plus whatever you have budgeted, and buy something even cooler.

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Buy a new one and you’ll flush 20K down the drain in 5 years. Check the resale value on a 5 year old Mustang.

I did it, but I could do the mechanicals. I did it for the experience of having that 'end to end restoration, touching every nut and bolt and knowing it was done the way I wanted it. I spent a lot, but it was worth it to have that in the end, for me.

I had to outsource body and paint. If you have to rely on someone else to do ANY work, chose reliably. So many horror stories.

If I had it to do over again, I would have waited and chose a better body to start with, but I still would do it.

I am a WCI who turned a rotm A code into an S-code clone…and I don’t care what it is worth because I don’t plan on selling it. I will love it and hug it and drive it on sunny days and never look back. :sunglasses:

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Well we can do a good portion of the mechanical stuff, but body and paint is something we can’t do. Shocks and suspension? Yes, especially since they put it up on the lift for us while we were there. Car’s frame is in excellent shape, straight, and rust free. It needs a front end alignment, and we would really like that 4 speed top loader we picked up from John in there, but we aren’t in a rush on this car either. We are both good on most of the mechanical stuff, and plan on working on the engine and such ourselves, but some things I’d rather leave to a professional (if that makes sense). Would we like to change it from a green to a black interior in the future? Yes, but not necessary to be done. So we do have a list of priorities, but it would be nice to have a solid car. It doesn’t need to be an absolute show stopper, but the car needs body work. Last person who did the work on it clearly did not do it properly.

I know outright we’d never make a return on our money put in (and we don’t intend too), but it would be something we could enjoy for the rest of our lives, but its still expensive. The owner, whom we talked to, said they won’t do a sub-par job and put there name on it, and flat out said 20k is the starting point to get the car stripped and to a solid body. Paint will probably be more, we are prepared to spend it.

I mean this car does have its positives too, aside from some gages not working (cowl leak is the suspect), electronically, its all sound. Transmission is in pretty good shape, car has an actual 77k miles on it. Engine was very clean when we opened it up, and aside from the occasional misfire (which is the project for this weekend actually), it’s a pretty nice engine. Very nice interior. But it definitely is a project car, especially from a body standpoint. And as much as we’d both love one, I don’t have a lift in the garage. I don’t have the equipment to do body work, and even though I check (cut and etch) mig welds for a living, I can’t weld. So we have our limitations on what we can and can’t do.

Place we are going to bring it too (if we do it, guy said to think about it for a week) is called Essex Customz here in Grand Rapids, MI.

Car is beautiful on the inside at least:





This is the place: http://www.essexcustomz.com/

Some of their work:
Chevelle with a dark green and a black pearl over it. (custom make their paint line)




They definitely have talent as far as body and paint goes…

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I don’t know the shop but, it looks like they specialize in more custom street rod type of builds. My first suggestion is have a clear end goal what you want to do with the Cougar. Paint color, drivetrain, interior and what changes and modifications you want to do. Then do it in stages so you don’t get overwhelmed and give up half way there which would be the worst finically. Mods to make the car more drivable and relievable are all good and usually don’t hurt resale especially on a Cougar that isn’t a special package to begin with like an Eliminator. Over the top custom mods can hurt resale as you might think it is cool but, the general public… not so much.
Another shop you can look into is Nyle Wing (Wings Auto Art) Welcome wingsautoart.com - BlueHost.com
He’s flexible on what parts of the restore you want him to do and what you want to tackle on your own. His restorations has won “International Show Car Association” seven times. I had him apply the paint to my XR7-G after I did the body work as I don’t have a booth to do the high end paint job. Never hurts to get another opinion especial on a big money/time investment restoring a car.

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Something I didn’t see specifically called out in the previous posts is all the exterior trim. What you’re going to find is that a beautiful new paint job will prompt you to want perfect bumpers, grilles, tail lights, wheel lip moldings, emblems, and window trim. When Jeff says to double the estimate, he’s not joking.

I do these restoration projects partly because I enjoy the process of seeing the car transformed and partly because my wife prefers spending smaller increments of money over longer periods of time. But you could get a gorgeous car and start enjoying it now for a lot less than you’re going to end up spending on restoring the one you have.

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Well they do rechrome, which would be the other thing we would use them for. Need to find wheel trim for this car too, doesn’t have it. They do do a lot of hot rods, but they also do quite a bit of restorations. We told them what we’d want is a modern suspension and brake underneath this car. We want a car that’s essentially going to be new.

Might have to check out the Wings Auto Art place too! If my cat makes it there without falling apart LOL.

Our truthful honest goal with this car is to have a nice solid cougar that we can go drive the hell out of. One that is safe (we want modern seatbelts too), reliable and easy to drive. One that can go to work with me when it’s nice out, one we can bring to a show and not have to put a fence around it so people stay at a 20 foot distance and think it’s a good looking cat haha. We have practically brand new taillights from my BF’s last car, which he sold to a friend 25 years ago and we did try buying that cat back before going for this one, but his friend refused. Rear bumper needs new rechroming, so does front bumper. Rest of the chrome trim on the car is in very nice shape.

I guess we could always just buy a beautiful car, but in a way we won’t get exactly what we want. This cat has a 4 bbl cleveland on it, which is something we’ve wanted from the get go. We actually have quite a bit of spare parts my BF pulled out of a junkyard decades ago in boxes in our basement too. Have an AC unit, have a blower, have a radiator, etc.

We don’t plan on making it a custom car, only changes will be the modern brakes, we want to put a traction-loc rear end on it, modern suspension and thats all that will be customized on it. Just stuff to make more drivable, and the rear end to have fun with that cleveland. Otherwise, thinking of going with a competition green paint, and want a solid, clean car. Nothing extravagant. Thats what these guys would do for us. It’s what they were doing with the 85 El Camino they were restoring too.

We told them about John’s and WCC, cause they said if there are parts available, especially as close as John’s, it will make for an easier and less costly restoration, and it seems like you get to be very involved in the process, which is nice. Plus they are a 10 minute drive from our house, though I really do like that Wings Auto Art place too.

We do expect the price quoted to go up, and he outright said they won’t know anything until the car is stripped to bare metal so we can all get an idea of what we are working with.

We do really love having this cat, just working on something little together, even just when we changed all the spark plugs, is enjoyable for both of us, its a hobby we both love, which is part of the drive for wanting to do it. We have the money for it, but its in a CD in the bank, and we are going tomorrow to see if there’s a penalty to withdraw a few months early, and if there is we will be waiting and/or moving to another cat, we do have the 10k down to get the project started though. The money is all extra money that doesn’t come out of our finances.

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Well we both looked at the Wings Auto Art, and we might make a little trip out to Ionia tomorrow, possibly with the cougar if it decides it wants to go that far, and check out what they think about the car, thank you for that suggestion!

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Ok, I saw Eliminator stripes. I am morally obligated to now ask for “More Pics Please!” :slight_smile:

It sounds like you intend to reap the benefits of your investment for a long time. You used “We” a lot, so it sounds like you also have the whole(?) family on board with the expense. It sounds to me like the end result will be a car that you can all enjoy together and seperately for a long time to come! I picture Mom and Dad driving the car to various cruise ins and shows through the summer months, and maybe on errands or to / from work once or twice a week - y’know, just to keep things running smoothly :slight_smile:
I picture kid(s) pushed back into the back seat while Mom merges with traffic through judiciuos use of the throttle. I picture those same kids learning to drive on the “family hot rod”, squabbling over who gets to drive it to school, and eventually who gets to inherit it (sad part there, to be sure).

Hmm… sound investment? I think you know the answer I would give.

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Right now it’s just my boyfriend and I, but it’s a hobby we both share. Car does have eliminator stripes on it, but it’s just a 1970 standard, complete with fake hood scoop. We are going to go out Wings Auto Art tomorrow, and see what they think about the car (might have to trailer it), and I think we are going to go for it.

Here’s a picture of the car when we picked it up at John’s:

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Well got the cat ready to go, and called the wings auto art place three times now to get their address with no answer. So might not be going with them if we can’t get the address!

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Wow, that is a sharp lookin’ Standard! Love the gold and black - very bold combination.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

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Well we got a hold of him and went out there. Talk about a shop full of beautiful cars. Talked for awhile, he’s estimating anywhere from 35k-50k, for a fully finished show level car. But he also said price goes down if we go for a regular paint job vs. a paint job you’d be scared to drive in. And also we can collect all the parts (need a bellhousing and clutch assembly for the 4 speed top loader, to begin with), and help with working on the car to cut down on labor prices. We are on the waiting list so we have time to decide. Didn’t bring the cat out, but he said in the spring we can bring it out and get it on his lift so we can figure out what exactly we are working with. The price would include sand blasting everything, straightening out the frame (if needed), repairing body panels that need to be repaired, painting it all, interior work, etc.

So we have two places and some thinking to do. We might just have someone get this car drivable (possibly Wing’s), and then save up for the body work it’s in dire need of. Both places are backed up with wait lists, so we definitely have time to figure it out. Definitely loved the Wing’s Auto Art place and he was really quite nice. We do like having the ability to get together all the parts the car needs ourselves, as we can hunt for deals and clean them up ourselves before it all gets put together.

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Do you have a place to work on the car?