Just inherited my Dad’s 68 Cougar. When he brought it over he said the turn signals just “stopped working” a few months ago. However, they come on but don’t flash and its the same with the hazards. Also, the dash indicators come on, don’t flash, and go dim after a second or two. Based on Vic’s guide, it seems the motor in the sequencer has gone bad, but would that also be the cause of the hazard lights not flashing?
The C8WY-13A366-AS sequential system replaces the motor-driven sequential flasher, the turn signal relay (with 14 wires), and the 5-pin emergency relay. As long as you have the mating connectors, you can probably put it back to stock. If the connectors in the tail light harness have been cut off, it may be easier to obtain a used driver’s side tail light harness and replace it.
Hello. I have a 1968 standard Cougar. Since owning the car, I have replaced the turn signal switch, the K7 relay, gone to a solid state sequencer in the trunk, replaced the gauge harness. I had lights, turn signals and flashers. I went to a car show and everything worked fine, on my return home, I noticed I didn’t have turn signals, There was an inline fuse on the red wire that kept blowing every time I activated the right turn signal. I had purchased the cheaper version from WCCC. I called and got the “Made in America” version, but still no signal. Lefts would work, but right would blow the fuse. Then, there were no lefts either. There are no flashers. Now, I have nothing at all. There was an exposed wire coming out of the flasher relay (K7), so I taped it up. Could it have fried the relay to the point that I have to replace it again? Is there a better version or modification that can be made to keep from having to keep replacing expensive and either used, or antiquated parts? Do the LED sequencial units bypass or no longer need this K7 thing? I wanted to stay as original looking as I could in terms of lighting, but I am extremely frustrated at this point. thank you in advance for any and all help.
When I said I had the cheaper version and now the more expensive “made in America”. I was referring to the turn signal switch in the column.
I just began work on my 1968 Cougar and purchased the solid state sequential turn signal system. Now the problem is only the center rear on each side and the front signals flash. In the instruction sheet, this indicated a faulty emergency flasher relay, but they also direct me to disconnect the emergency relay in the trunk and insert a wire into just one of the flasher plug ports. Does the solid state unit incorporate the emergency flasher, or do I need to leave the original emergencty flasher connected, and plug the wire into the back of the port? Thanks for any help.
Yes it does! You will no longer need this part. Put is on the shelf with all the other parts you keep “just because”.
I have been working with Don to do a video on the Signal Lamp system for the Cougar. As a 30yr technician, I approached troubleshooting this system in my own Cat with relish. I actually worked on systems with ‘cam and switch’ control systems (back in the day)
I discovered why it is such a confusing and cumbersome thing to deal with. There are some good guides out there, but some with incomplete descriptions leading to some misconceptions.
Such as the fact that the funky relay (Turn Signal Relay) which works off the lamp circuit current ONLY controls the indicator lamps, not the Front turn signals. They run off the #2 leg of the Sequential Relay.
So, I have put together a synopsis “from a technicians point of view” which summarizes the operation of the circuits as I understand them (hah), and understanding is key to troubleshooting.
So please help correct or edit this such that it would be useful to anyone wanting to tackle this, and excuse my use of Acronyms, rather than designations like K5, etc, I need a translator for that.
Need to sleep, read on:
1967 Mercury Cougar Signal Lamp Synopsis
Check Operation modes (4 Operational Cicuits):
1)Light Switch On - Powers front and rear signal lamp uppers, check all bulbs light.
2)Hazard Switch On - Powers front lowers and rear #2 lowers to flash at SQ Motor rate. Sequential Motor ON
3)Brake Switch On - Powers Rear Lowers #1-3
4)Turn Signal Switch On- Front Flash, Rear Sequence 1,2,3
The Front and Rear Signal Lamps are powered by 4 different circuits. These circuits have different paths, some using common components (relays and such). This allows one to use each mode to assist in identifying problem areas.
The signal lamps themselves have 2 lighted elements (we will call them ‘lower’ and ‘upper’ based on their position within the bulb), and thus have 2 or more wires going to them. We are concerned primarily with the Lowers for signal operation.
The Front Lamps have an independent ground wire running to them, the Rear Lamps are ground to the frame. The first step is to verify all lamps light the upper element (via Light Switch in Parking Lamp position) and thus have a good ground.
From there, observe the lights in each of the other 3 operational modes to determine which components need to be explored.
A description of each component’s function is provided below to assist in troubleshooting.
A VOM is recommended for Turn Signal switch continuity testing, and may be used to verify voltages which should be present.
Wire numbers have been provided for some of the major signals, all signals may be referenced in the Wiring Diagram Master available in the Ford Electrical Assembly Manual S-77 Pages E7-13801-1,2
Turn Signal Switch (TSSW)
Function: To supply voltage(s) for Turn Signal Operation in Left or Right mode.
Operation: When the Turn Signal lever is moved up(R) or down(L), 2 outputs are created.
The first is the L/R indication (441/440). This is used for powering the L/R coils of the Sequential Relay for L/R lamp control, and the 441 (Left) signal is used by the Turn Signal Indicator Relay for Front Indicator lamp control, and branched back to the SQR for Left Front/Rear signal lamp operation. The 440 (Right) signal is sent directly to the SQR for Right signal lamp operation.
The second output is the power which is actually routed to illuminate all Turn Signal lamps via the Sequential Relay, and the Indicator lamps via the Turn Signal relay (TSR), herein referred to as the TS Master Loop (458/459). Current on the TS Master Loop is what operates the Turn Signal Relay for INDICATOR flash operation. (Dashboard)
Indications: Power to the TSSW is supplied by the Ignition Switch. Best test method is continuity test using TSSW connection chart appendix. L/R operation can be altered by other components, so direct observation is not as useful.
Turn Signal Relay (TSR) - K7 RELAY (Under Dash)
Function: To provide flash operation for the Front TS Indicator lamps.
Operation: The coil of TSR is inline with the TS Master loop. Unlike most relays, the coil is NOT connected directly to ground so that it simply turns on or off with voltage. It operates when the current is at a certain level.
When energized, the TSR sends varying voltage on the 694 line to the Turn Signal Indicator Relay (TSINDR), which directs it to the L or R Indicator.
The contacts are normally closed so that the front lamp is ON, as the Sequential Motor lights the lamps, current changes on the TS Master loop cause it to operate the Indicator lamp with varying intensity. (Not On Off operation)
Indications: Failure of the TSR coil results in the Front L/R INDICATOR lamp being lit with no flash. Failure of contacts would cause L or R Indicator not to illuminate.
Any current irregularities (Burned out bulb, loose ground) can cause irregular Indicator lighting.
Turn Signal Indicator Relay (TSINDR) - K5 RELAY (Under Dash)
Function: To direct power to the Left or Right Front Indicator (dash) lamps.
Operation: The TSINDR has the contacts for the right turn signal normally closed. It only switches the TSR output to the left side when it gets the 441 (Left) signal from the Turn Signal Switch. The 441A signal is routed to the trunk from here for rear operation.
Needs verification Physical testing and observation indicates LEFT side may be default, and wiring diagram is reversed.
Indications: Failure of the coil causes only right front lamps to operate. Failure of the contacts could cause one or both Front lamps not to illuminate.
Emergency Warning Relay (EMWR) - K6 RELAY (Under dash)
Function: To connect the Front Left and Front Right INDICATOR Lamp signals together for Emergency Mode operation
Operation: The 514A voltage line from the HZSW keeps the coil energized, and seperates the L/R voltage lines, so they can operate independently.
When HZSW is ON 514A voltage is removed, the coil de-energizes, and L/R signals for the Front INDICATOR Lamps are tied together so that they flash together in Emergency mode.
Indications: This Relay requires active voltage from the HZSW for normal operation. Failure of the relay coil causes both front INDICATOR lamps to light when TSSW is moved left OR right. (No independent mode). Failure of the contacts would have no effect on normal operation, however Emergency mode would flash INDICATOR lamp only on one side . (TSINDR Default)
Sequential Motor (SQM) (Trunk)
Function: To create sequential timing of 3 rear signal lamps.
Operation: When the Turn Signal Switch is moved to either the L or R position, the 458 A or B signal is powered. These are tied together to become the 458 line, so whether L or R, voltage is supplied to the Front Flasher Relay, and the rear Sequential Motor and Lamps, creating what I will call the TS Master Loop.
Indications: Failure of the SQM causes Rear Lamps not to Sequence, and front lamps not to flash. Any, all, or no lamps may light, depending on the position of the cam. Front Indicator Lamps may fail to flash due to current deviation in the Master Loop.
Sequential Relay (SQR) (Trunk)
Function: To provide connections between source voltages (Emergency mode or Normal TS operation), and left or right signal lamps in the front as well as the rear. Passes Brake signal to all lamps when de-energized.
Operation: In Normal mode, the TSSW sends either the L or R signal to close the left or right contacts. This passes the voltage output from the 3 Sequential Motor switches out to Lamps #1-3 on either the left or right, based on which is indicated, and to the Front Lamp as a branch from the #2 Lamp signal, synchronizing their flash.
Energizing the SQR in Left or Right mode disconnects that side from the Brake signal.
In Emergency Mode, the EMWRA removes the #1 and #3 connections, passing only the #2 Rear Lamps, and thus the Front lamps as well.
Indications: All signal lamp voltage passes through the SQM, and it has many internal contacts. Coil failure would allow Brake light operation, but not Signal Operation.
Contact failures could cause individual lamps not to light during sequential operation.
Emergency Warning Relay ‘A’ (EMWRA) - K10 RELAY (Trunk)
Function: To disconnect Rear Lamps #1 and #3 during Emergency Mode so that only Lamp #2 is lit.
Operation: When the Hazard Switch (HZSW) is in the OFF position, the EMWRA coil is energized by the 514 signal wire from HZSW, closing contacts which connect the #1 and #3 Lamp signals from the Sequential Motor (SQM) to the Sequential Relay (SQR).
Indications: This Relay requires active voltage from the HZSW for normal operation. Failure of this relay or contacts results in failure of #1 and #3 lamps to light the Lower element for Turn Signal Operation ONLY. Brake signal operation is not affected, as they operate on a different line (475 from SLSW) directly to the SQR.
Stop Lamp Switch (SLSW)
Function: To pass voltage to the SQR for Stop Lamp Operation.
Operation: When the Brake pedal is depressed, the SLSW sends voltage on the 475 line to the SQR. Inside the SQR, the 475 line is connected to all rear bulbs when the L/R coils are NOT energized.
Indications: Failure of Brake lamps to illuminate.
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My 68 xr7 (with solid state box) just developed a weird problem. Left turn signals work fine. The right turn signals (front and rear) don’t come on at all (although the rt dash indicator does). The brake lights (both sides) work fine unless the right signal is switched on, in which case the right side goes dark. The hazard lights work normally (as does the hazard/turn combo trick, ie both sides sequence simultaneously). I can hear the underdash relay clicking for left turn but not right.
Using a test light on the connectors in the trunk, I get power at the white wire when the left signal is on and power at the purple wire when the right signal is on so it seems like the switch is sending power to the right spots. I’ve checked and double checked all of the connectors I could find and wiggled all kinds of wires without any change. Any ideas from the wise electrical gurus here will be most appreciated.
Yorgle,
First the good news, your sequential system is fine as the left sequences and the hazards work. Also , the brake circuit is working as intended because the side that you place the turn signal indicators should behave like a turn signal not a brake light. You can verify this by putting on your brakes and put the turn signal in left mode, the right brake light should be lit but the left turn signals should sequence. Your rights are going dark when you have the brakes on and the switch in right mode because the right turn signal are not currently working. Your right dash light is turning on but not blinking but again this is all related to your one problem, that is the right rear turn signals do not work!!
The 67 and 68 Sequential systems passes power back on 2 circuits to the sequential system in the trunk, the one you have tested and verified is for the turn signal relays which controls the left/right signals (BTW this circuit branches and provides power to the dash indicator lights) but the turn signal switch also passes power to the K7 relay and subsequently to the Sequential Motor circuit which provides power for the inner, center and outer turn signal lights. (On a side note, the K7 relay cycles as the rear turn signal bulbs and the front turn signal light power, this is the clicking you hear under the dash).
I suspect that the root of your problem lies within the turn signal switch. You can verify this by checking for power on circuit #458 (Orange-Black) wire that is the middle wire on the turn signal connector when you have the switch in right turn mode. Note, the the other Orange-Black wire #458B second from the end next to the Orange-Yellow wire is for left turn mode. These two circuits are joined and provide power to the Sequential Motor which provides the power for inner, center and outer turn signal lights.
I hope this helps.
Coach Jack
Wow, thanks for that excellent reply- you were spot on. Just as you suspected, I get no power at the middle orange-black wire with the signal lever up, but there is power at the orange-black wire next to it when the lever is down. So, I guess the next question is what could be wrong with the switch? I pulled the steering wheel and cleaned up the contacts on the switch but that didn’t help. Is there a connector somewhere inside the steering column that could be loose?
Unfortunately you will most likely need to replace the switch. BTW, hazard/turn combo trick is really bad for the switch as it tends to overheat the switch.
Coach Jack
Well good news. You’re absolutely right about the switch. I just happened to push on the turn lever to tilt the column upward toward the light and as I did so the right dash indicator started blinking! So I pulled the switch out a ways to peek behind it and couldn’t see any obvious stray wires so I put everything back together and it’s working. For how long, who knows? Hopefully long enough to place an order at WCCC.
Great to here you got it working for the time being.
Coach Jack
I really appreciate all your help, Coach. I was ready to start tearing into the sequencer box looking for a bad relay. I’m confident that wouldn’t have ended well.
Hi All,
This has probably been covered here at least in some way, but between reading through all the posts and looking over the trouble shooting guides, my head is kind of spinning.
My problem on my 68 Cougar standard with my turn signals is, the turn signal switch clicks into place when left hand signal is engaged, but won’t even go into the right hand position (I suspect a bad turn signal switch on this one).
I also have no turn signals, but tail lights and brake lights work (all 3 on each side). When I push the hazard button in only the 2 rear center lights flash, and the front lights.
When I engage the hazard switch and the left turn signal the hazards flash the 2 inner most lights and the center lights, in sequence (I only did this briefly as a test, because I did see the recent post that this is bad to do). Wondering why the outer lights didn’t engage. Maybe because of the bad switch?
Given the information that I have provided, do you guys (and gals) suspect replacing the turn signal switch should get me back up and operational? I don’t want to just go ordering parts that I may not need like some crazed nut.
Fingers Crossed!
the turn signal switch clicks into place when left hand signal is engaged, but won’t even go into the right hand position (I suspect a bad turn signal switch on this one).
You are correct that most likely the turn signal switch is bad since it won’t go into right mode. I have seen turn signal cam repair kits but from others I have talked to, you are better off replacing the switch. Also, make sure you read this post by Catman post #33 inspecting and modifying turn signal switch’s plastic “gateways” before installing Turn signal fuse location | Page 3 | Mercury Cougar Owners
When I push the hazard button in only the 2 rear center lights flash, and the front lights.
This is correct (along with both turn signal indicators)
Wondering why the outer lights didn’t engage. Maybe because of the bad switch?
No, the switch won’t cause this issue. There are a few possible causes of this starting with the easiest, check the outer taillight bulb and the bulb connection for any corrosion. Even though my writeup is for a 67, the troubleshooting tips for the Sequential Motor and the K8/K9 Sequential relays and the K10 Emergency Warning relay are the same for the 68. https://classiccougarcommunity.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/1967_Cougar_Sequential_Turn_Signal_System_Troubleshooting_Guide.pdf
Good Luck and let me know if you need any additional information
Coach Jack
OK, I’ve narrowed my no-left-signal issue to the fact that I have no power at the green wire at the canceling cam. Putting a jumper between the blue and green wires seems to solve the problem, but I’d like to confirm that I’m not going to fry something by leaving it this way. I can’t seem to reconcile my solution with the wiring diagram for 68 (The pdf image is fuzzy at the switch area).
By looking at pictures of the repop turn signal switch on WCCC it is clear that the green and blue wires from the canceling cam connect to the back of the emergency switch. They would both seem to draw power from the same source. On the diagram, there is a green wire labeled 511B that runs from the emergency switch to the connector, but it’s not really clear if it is actually spliced to green wire to the cam. And there doesn’t appear to be a blue wire connecting the emergency switch and the turn switch like in the picture. Is there a clearer schematic of the switch itself available?
Unlike the 1967, the 1968 Left/Right control is entirely in the Turn Signal/Hazard Switch Assembly (No K5 relay). Any directional issue seen in both the dash indicators and outer lamps will be most likely be there.
Your jumper may cause the system to work by placing voltage on a broken connection, but the 2 connections have different functionality, so results may vary. It is an ‘either/or’ scenario. Either the Blue wire should have voltage, or the Green wire should have voltage, but not both. This is controlled by the Hazard Switch.
In Normal mode, there should be no voltage from the GREEN(Hazard Mode) wire to the cancelling cam. The BLUE (normal mode) wire should be hot (from #8 wire IGN Switch ON), and the Hazard switch passes this to the cam for left OR right signal (511 lines).
The Green wire is the Hazard System Supply voltage. It comes direct from the Starter Relay terminal via a fused line. It is used when the Hazard Switch is ON for HAZARD MODE power to the Flasher, Seq Motor, and both Seq Relays (L and R)
It comes in on wire #10 from the 10/10A trunk which branches to the Brake Switch, changes to wire 385 (White/red) and goes into the Hazard Switch. When the Switch is ON, the Green wire should go hot, passing on voltage to both Left and Right cams.
Thanks devildog. I ran outside to verify what was happening with my jumper fix. Both L and R turn signals, dash indicators, and brake lights work normally. I see that the emergency lights, however, now sequence both sides instead of just flashing the center bulbs. Cool.
Your Emergency Warning Relay is staying powered in Hazard Mode due to the jumper, which is not a problem unless it violates whatever gubem’nt mandate made them do that in the first place.
That’s cool, thanks for posting results. They always get my wheels turning.
I imagine you are supplying the ‘blue’ wire’s broken connections in the Hazard Switch portion with the green supply, which is hot even when the ignition is off. But I do not know where you are jumping it.
Tell me this, do your turn signals work even when the ignition is off? Because they shouldn’t, but again, not a problem unless you leave them on.
You should plan on replacing the whole assembly.