I twisted a small piece of wire between each of the rivet ends on the cam. It was intended to be just a temporary test fix but since it works I’ll probably leave it go until something else breaks. And no, the signals don’t work with the ignition off.
Guys,
Here is what I have:
-
Headlights work when headlights are switched on, but tail lights do not illuminate
-
When headlight switch is set to Parking lights, one headlamp on each side illuminates and the front side markers illuminate, rear side markers do not illuminate
-
Brake lights work with application of brake
-
When either left or right turn signal is selected, the dash arrows illuminate steady and the sequencer in the trunk begins to operate, but the tail lights/turn signals do not illuminate
-
If the brakes are on , the brake lights illuminate. If a L or R turn signal is then selected, the brake light on that side goes out.
Where do I start?
Mike
Mike,
I just want to verify that you are asking about a 68 Cougar correct?
Check circuit #14 at the headlight switch and verify power is coming out of the switch. Next, move to the rear of the car and check for 12 V both before and after the 6 amp circuit breaker.
I though that the 68 rear side markers are reflectors and not lights
- Brake lights work with application of brake
The dash arrows “flash” due to current draw through the rear turn signal lamps. Since your turn signals currently do not work, the dash lights will not flash either. The good news here is that your K7 and Sequential Motor are both working.
Actually this is exactly what the rear brake lights are supposed to do when the turn signal is set to left or right. The good news is that this indicates that your K8/K9 relays are working.
Even though my Turn signal troubleshooting guide is for a 67, the 68 is very similar.
Check to see if the Sequential Motor is outputting voltage on the inner , middle and outer circuits when you have the turn signal in left or right mode.
Good Luck
Coach Jack
Thanks Coach!
Between your response and the troubleshooting guide I have plenty to get me started.
Mike
That is correct. The rear markers on a 68 are not lights. They are only reflectors.
Randy Goodling
CCOA #95
SUCCESS!!!
After a couple of days of troubleshooting, the original turn signal & emergency flasher system is now working perfectly.
I replaced all the bulbs and then I used the wiring diagrams to troubleshoot (i am not an electrician!) . Quite difficult to follow using reference to the color codes, so I used powerpoint to make up a full color wire diagram of the system. I have attached copies for anyone else who needs them.
After much testing, my problem was in two areas:
In the sequencing motor, the three pivoting brass contacts had worn down over time and no longer made contact with the other side when depressed by the cam. My solution was to file about 1mm off the shoulders of each contact which allowed it to reach a little further and thereby touch the other side.
I also found that I could get the center turn signal to illuminate but not the outside lamps, which pass through the emergency relay before going to the turn signals. I opened up the emergency relay and found that the two points (they look like distributor points) were not making contact, so I bent them a little until they did maintain contact. After that, everything worked - headlights, tail lights, turn signals, emergency flasher, brake lights. A successful day,
Mike
1 Like
Need some help …
I am restoring a '69 Eliminator for my daughter and have replaced the turn signal switch (twice), the sequencing box, and the flasher with parts from WCCC. Unfortunately, when I signal a turn … I only get the inboard bulb to flash normally and a “pulse” of a flash on the center bulb. This happens when indicating a turn to either side. I get no flash on the outboard bulb.
I talked to Don at WCCC and he suggested trying an original flasher and I will do that this weekend … but I had thought the solid state should have worked. Any other suggestions would be much appreciated.
Mzqj6r - Check your grounds. I had similar problem after everything was freshly painted. I had to scuff up the paint to get better grounding. The taillight housings ground to the body. You could try checking for continuity with a multimeter between the housing and body, or just check a couple of the bolts that hold the housings in place to make sure you’re getting good contact with the housing and body.
From your description, it sounds like the flasher is short cycling. Verify that the electronic flasher has replaced the turn signal flasher - it is located up under the dash, to the right (passenger side) of the radio.
This solution will typically work for a few months, but once the contacts have eroded through the hard plating into the base metal, they will continue to erode much faster. This will require continued maintenance. The best solution is an electronic replacement sequencer - no moving parts.
BTW: Great job on the diagrams!
Thanks, that is good to know. Now that I have the original system working, I am going to unplug it, pack it away for shows, and fit a solid state electronic sequencer.
Ok, I have a set of symptoms that seem to be a head-scratcher. I want to start by saying that I have gone through the forum, read and re-read the fantastic troubleshooting guide and bought and installed 2 items that I thought were the problem but turned out not to be. Here’s what I have:
1969 XR7 vert:
Hazards work perfectly, front and back
Brake lights work
Right turn signal works, front and back (arrow on dash does not light up, I hear the flasher can clicking under the dash)
Left turn signal comes on solid in front (no blink), arrow on dash lights up solid (no blink), tail light does nothing and if the brake lights are on it shuts only that side off.
I have tried a new sequential unit in the trunk and replaced the turn signal switch in the column, no changes whatsoever. That would seem to indicate to me that the flasher can under the dash is the culprit but I wanted to get advice before I order and install yet another thing!
Thanks guys!
Todd
I guess I’ll copy and paste my reply to your original thread here as well
I have a couple pf questions for you:
[QUOTE] Hazards work perfectly, front and back
Right turn signal works, front and back (arrow on dash does not light up, I hear the flasher can clicking under the dash) [/QUOTE]
Do the dash indicators lights light up when the hazards are on? Do realize that the hazard wiring has its own flasher can seperate from the turn signal circuit.
My guess from your description is that the right dash light does not turn on with the hazards which would indicate a problem somewhere in circuit 49. The simplest is to make sure the bulb in the dash is not burnt out. Circuit #49 comes from the turn signal switch to the dashes printed circuit board.
The left turn signal is powered via circuits #442 and 448. Disconnect the Red A9 connector at the sequential unit in the trunk and check these circuits when in left turn mode. Note that this side won’t blink because it needs the taillights drawing power for the flasher to work properly. Plus the right and left are fed power from the same flasher so since it works on your right but not the left, your flasher can is fine.
Hope this helps
Coach Jack
Thanks for both replies, Jack! I should get some free time tomorrow to check the things you suggested. Thank you very much for the info.
Best,
Todd
Hey coach, I finally had the time to do some of my homework!
Someone else suggested I make sure the front turn signals are grounded, both of the grounds are solid, tight and corrosion free.
You are correct, when the hazards are on (and operating properly) the right arrow on the dash does not light up (so bad bulb, right?).
I opened the red plug by the sequencer in the trunk and turned on the left signal, the circuits aren’t labeled but there is a row of 2 holes then above that a row of 3 holes. The only one with power is the middle of the 3 hole row, which shows 13v. The rest show 0. When the 3 hole row is on top then the right-most hole causes my meter to go totally blank (not even a 0) as though it is shorting.
Does that help diagnose at all?!
The only videos I have seen online to get at the back of the instrument panel (to check the bulb) is by taking the whole dash off. Is that the only way, and if so, should I feel intimidated about doing that?!
The red plug is the input to the Sequential Circuit. The black plug is the output. Circuit 442 powers the left inner turn signal light and also provides an input signal to the SEQ. This signal is used to internally select the left center 443 and left outer 444 taillights. Circuit 448 is also used during a left turn signal operation and it provides power for the sequencing circuits. Combined with 442, this enables the left lights to sequence. Note that since your left inner light does not come on nor do you see power at this circuit, the problem lies before the SEQ. Power provided on these two circuits come from the turn signal switch. Between the turn signal switch and the SEQ, is a plug connector under the dash on the drivers side.
I recommend that you make sure the turn signal switch is outputting power on poth circuits mentioned above. Then trace the two circuits to their connectors and see if you can track down the source of the problem.
Hey Coach!
I have been trying to follow the wires from the column to the box in the trunk but there are big areas I can’t figure out how to access, even after consulting the “electrical” volume of the service manual. I removed the door sill plate, everything looks good there (the wires look mint!), but should I be poking my electric probe through the insulation on the wires to check them? That seems like a bad idea but I honestly don’t know.
Since I just replaced the turn signal switch and the problem did not get better, nor change at all, can I safely assume that the problem does not lie there? When I replaced the switch I had to put the new wires in the plug connector under the dash, there are no bent or misaligned pins.
Sorry, bad example
Greg,
Todd is working on a 69 cougar which has the solid state sequencer system and not the mechanical relays like on the 67 and 68s.
NO, disconnect the harness and check the wires from the ends of the harness!!
Todd, verify that the turn signal switch works correctly. First disconnect the battery. Next check that the turn signal switch in left mode is contacting the correct circuit by placing an ohmeter on the turn signal input 44 circuit and on circuit #3. Next check the continuity between 44 and 9. Last but not least check circuits 3 and 9 again but this time instead of checking to 44, place this probe on ground (you should see infinite for the ground test). You’re probably wondering why the new circuits above that I had not mentioned in my previous posts. This is because the circuits on the turn signal switch on the car harness side vs the turn signal switch side are numbered differently!! If you have continuity on circuits 44 - 9 and 44 - 3 then lets troubleshoot back to the sequencer box.
You will need to make some long extension wires in order to use your multimeter. Leave the turn signal harness disconnected and now disconnect the sequential box in the trunk. Check circuit 448 and 442 at the sequential harness to the turn signal harness for continuity . Also perform the ground test on these two circuits.
Let me know if you need any additional help.
Coach Jack
Ahh, that must have been info from the other thread, yep, '69 control is all in the TSS.