67 Restomod with High Compression Ethanol Ford 400

Cougar Community The Project Forum
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I recently picked up a 67 base edition cougar that was more rust than paint. I’m about 20% into the rust removal/prevention, undercoating, and painting. I am going to be building a high-compression engine to run only E85 Ethanol at a CR of roughly 13.0-13.6 : 1 which will also mean not being able to run pump gas in a pinch, to burn Ethanol more efficiently. At first I thought about building a 351W since it made sense for the car. Then I decided to go Cleveland instead because I’d just end up building the Windsor into a Cleveland. Finally I decided I would build a Ford 400, for several reasons.

Firstly, to raise the CR easily, my first move with a 351C would be to stroke it no more than a square bore/stroke, to 400. Of course, for that means, the 400 block would just be a stronger, higher-decked, and stroked Cleveland. Not to mention I’ve built them before and 500hp with 600 ft/lbs is not hard to achieve. I do not have a HP goal, though, because as I said earlier that’s not quite the point. While adding H/C aluminum heads, H/C pistons, hi lift cam and the rest of the bells and whistles that will be necessary to achieve the high CR will be a great recipe for more HP and Torque, the main goal is to burn Ethanol efficiently.

Although I am expecting to build a lot of power with this build, and doing so with a slightly heavier powertrain (though I believe lighter than a 390?), thusly I will need to strengthen the chassis and unitized body to take high torque. And I’m going to at least need disc front brakes.

Obviously I have multiple questions about different projects to come.

One hurdle I’m certain anyone reading this is contemplating is the method of squeezing a 400 between the shock towers of a 67. And I’m very open to all the ideas I can get. I can see from searching that it’s been done at least twice, but not very well documented as far as I can find. One of the more promising fixes I found would be the AJE Racing Mustang Tubular K-Member MU-90UM, and then fitting the motor mounts. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with that K-Member, or a similar one that works better.

I’m also planning on adding a monte carlo bar, along with shock tower braces, and subframe connectors. I was hoping someone would want to tell me about the Heidts RM-023 Chassis Stiffener and if there was better. One question I have is since I’m adding all this structural reinforcement, should I/do I still need to weld in a passenger side torque box?

A far as the rear end goes, I plan to be swapping the 8" for a 9" and while I don’t feel the need for an expensive 4-link setup, I would like to add (aside from an obvious anti-roll bar) a panhard bar. However, I have not managed to find any weld-on or bolt-on kits for cougars or mustangs. Am I going to have to fabricate this myself?

Another question I have is which front end kit to go with. I’m certain this is a very common discussion, but I’m not looking for a road-coarse car, I’m more interested in the suspension kit coming with good springs and disc brakes. So I’m not looking for the cheapest, I’m just looking for an affordable one that might not be the best handling, but comes with disc brakes.

Lastly, I have not been able to locate a replacement floor panel patch for the driver side section under the rear seat, behind and above the rear footwell. I’ve considered patching it with flat sheetmetal since it’ll never be seen under the rear seat, but I prefer not to half-ass things when given the opportunity.

I think that’s all the questions I’m bouncing around right now. Oh yeah I’d like to find a fiberglass hood, but everywhere I look says nope. The 400 block and crank are at the machine shop, and the windows and bumpers are up in the attic until the end when I need them.

Thanks for reading, here’s some pictures.

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First, welcome to the forum.

Second, a stroked 351C (if the budget allows) is going to be a lot easier to fit into your engine compartment since they came in '70 Cougar’s. You can use regular mounts, you can get headers that fit, etc.

If you are set on using the 400, do you have a dual pattern bellhousing block? If not, you’ll need to use a transmission with a Lima (429/460) bellhousing pattern since that is what the majority of 400 blocks are.

Good luck with your project and I look forward to hearing/seeing more about it as you go along.

Regards,

Bob

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I’ve got a mildly built 400 in my old truck and I would have to think a cowl hood would be needed to fit that taller deck in a Cougar. Maybe some of the 390 guys can help since the 400 is only a hair taller than a 390.

While you are at it, you could get TMeyer to whip out a 435 stroker with CHI heads for you :slight_smile:

http://www.tmeyerinc.com/default.asp

Interested to see if its doable. That’s the one engine that could out-torque the FE’s without going to a full big block 460.

Looking around, it seems like the 400 is one engine they don’t make a plastic mock up replica for…

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RUN AWAY SCREAMING FROM A 400M , period! 302/351 w based is where it is at, afforadable parts and decent power numbers and you don’t have to reengineer the whole car. and power to weight ratio will be a whole lot better too.

also keep in mind i work for heidts auto group, so talk to me before you order any chassis parts!

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XR7Vert: A 351C would ve easier to fit and the parts would pretty much cost the same as a 400 (most parts would be the same), but in my area (Sacramento) a 351C, even just a block in bad condition, is worth something. While 400s, complete with a great block never rebuilt before, are pretty much just given away. This isn’t any extreme budget build, I’ve got some savings I’ve been planning for this for a while, but the price of a 351C PLUS the price of a stroker kit might end up being the same amount I’ll be spending on aluminum heads, H/C Pistons, and machine work. All of which I’d need to buy for the 351C once it was stroked. And because of the lower deck height the stroker kit would have thin pistons with the oil ring really close to the wrist pin. That’s no good for high compression.

Also no, the 400 was mated to a C6 like the rest of 'em. Since this car isn’t a daily driver and intended for fun, cruising, and occasional road trips, I intend to add a manual with overdrive. Probably a ZF, but I’ll take whatever I can get, really. Thanks.

fordblue: That’s my thinking as well and I am looking for another hood, preferably fiberglass but I’d take stock if I have to. I’d rather have the hood without anything added so that I can find out exactly how much more space - and where - I need, then add the cowl or whatever is necessary.

Also, I prefer the torque band of the 400 not stroked, or the 351C stroked no more than 408. Any more than that is too much biased towards the low end. The 400 stock is already very biased towards the low end. And yes, I haven’t had any luck finding a plastic or foam replica of the 351m/400 block either. It would make header fab much easier, when the time comes. I’d like to pay for that to be done, but the prices are daunting and I know there are kits they sell. Thanks.

jk69cat: I’ve heard that one a lot before. Honestly, I think the 400 and the 460 are the only engines that can make an LTD or a Granada get up and go. In those cars, I’d say stroke the 400 as far as you want/can afford since you need all that low end. Also, I notice most of the people who say don’t build a 400, have never built a 400.

I’ve built a three 302’s, a 351W, two 351C’s, and four 400’s. All you can do to a 351w is try to build it into a Cleveland. 302’s are great and if this car was going to run pump gas I’d probably go with one. The car came with one already. But I’ve had enough of the 302’s. And with aluminum heads and intake the P/W ratio’s will only be about 50-100lbs apart, and I think Jerry Titus would agree that’s not a big enough difference.

And since you work for Heidts, would you recommend the RM-023 or a different chassis stiffener, and would I also need to add subframe connectors? And what other parts would you recommend to hold this thing together with that monster 400? Thanks.

Also, I edited the first post with pictures.

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the rm-023 will fit with our subframe connectors. i do offer a 4 link for the cougars, 1395.00 + options engines, i bleed blue i have worked in ford dealers since i was 17 , i have built fe’s, lima’s ,modified’s, modulars, and 351c’s and of course windsors. so it is not without merit that i say that, the modified are the biggest pos next to the 3.8 v6 and the old y blocks. a 351w block stroker is the dollar for dollar way to build and get seroius power . next would a be fe if you need to pull down a house !

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How did you determine a 400 block is stronger than a 351C? 400’s were notorious for cracking in the lifter valley. Why not a 429-460? Better head bolt arrangement for your hi-comp E85, more cubes and about the same weight and size…
Maier has your panhard bar

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I am a Cleveland fan (I currently run one in a '69 'vert and am actively building a fully forged 408C) but the above statement is totally off base. You can build a KILLER 351W with the parts that are available today - and none of them are Cleveland based (although you can build a Clevor, most people don’t go to the trouble because of the aforementioned). A 408 or 427W is the hot ticket for most people today and for good reason. What you are describing is a whole lot of work (and IMO unnecessary work because of the aforementioned). There are a number of things that will bolt right in and easily meet your goals. Heck, if you want to talk extreme, how about this “289-based” Cyclone I saw (and filmed) this past fall at the drags?:

Your goal: met.

Also, a ZF trans? Isnt that a transaxle like what was used in the Pantera? TKO600 would be my recommendation (and is what I run).

Having said all this, it’s your party!

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zf’s are also aclunky shifting ford truck trans,

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Awe come on guys, its not that bad of a motor:

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_9809_ford_406_engine_build/viewall.html

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Whether or not the 400 is worth building is such an old argument, I don’t have anything to add there. However I do agree that it is a lot of work to fit the 400. And I have still kept my eyes open for a cleveland, but as I look for parts for each different build, I could build a 351c with H/C pistons and heads still as a 351c, or I could build a 400 with the same H/C pistons and heads, but I don’t intend to afford a stroker kit for a 351c, then the H/C heads.

And the ZF trans off a 460 is rebuildable.

But I appreciate the input, and the task does seem daunting, and a fully forged 408C sounds like a lot of money, and it sounds stronger than a 400.

Another question I have is which front end kit to go with. I’m certain this is a very common discussion, but I’m not looking for a road-coarse car, I’m more interested in the suspension kit coming with good springs and disc brakes. So I’m not looking for the cheapest, I’m just looking for an affordable one that might not be the best handling, but comes with disc brakes.

Lastly, I have not been able to locate a replacement floor panel patch for the driver side section under the rear seat, behind and above the rear footwell. I’ve considered patching it with flat sheetmetal since it’ll never be seen under the rear seat, but I prefer not to half-ass things when given the opportunity.

These are more prominent questions and pertain to things I will be buying sooner than engine parts. That and if anyone can get a fiberglass hood. Thanks.

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Truck trans?
With the granny gear?? :laughing:

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I agree, John Kaase built a really stout one for EMC one year in fact. Just saying it is a lot of work to go to (intake, increased engine height and width, exhaust, bellhousing, more weight, etc.) when there are easier ways to get a 400 inch class engine in a Cougar, namely a stroker. A cast 351W 408 kit is one such way, not that I am trying to favor a Windsor, I am not, but it’s probably the least expensive way to get there save the 400M and a lot less work.

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Fastcat, is that you buddy? :buck:

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Even though the 351C and 400 pistons share the same compression distance will the 351C pistons clear the 400 crank counterweights at BDC? Hmmm…
Warm up the Bridgeport…

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FE’s and 351W are getting scarce around here… Good ones anyway. While I am not sure about the 400 in a Cougar, it could make a good alternative in lots of aps. They seem to be numerous and cheap. I think we also have to consider the specific build Mud Flap wants to create. E85 and high compression is a long way from a stroked 351 W burning pump gas. Sounds pretty interesting in its own right.

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I agree on that one.

Everyone embraced the inline turbo Cougar build once the pictures started showing the progress.

I say go for it. The stroke of an engine builds torque and that 400 has a longer stroke than the 427 and the 460.

Build a mock up with cardboard boxes into the rough dimensions. That way you can see if shock towers are even going to allow it with the engine sitting low enough.

LIke I said, I have a full trim 400 in my truck. If you need, I can take measurements and mark up some pictures to get you a starting point.

As long as you don’t slowly cut the car up into pieces and it all ends up in the dumpster over time because the plan isn’t working out. We’ve been hurt before with that story…

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If I had a $10K budget and had to have a Cleveland;
HERE

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Too bad that we are on opposite coasts of the country as I have several 351C sitting around here taking up space. True, they are worth something but not that much to me. Yes, a 400 does use a C6 but not the same C6 as a 351C because the bellhousing bolt pattern is different. Your added photos are only showing up to me as a box with a red X in it.

Randy Goodling
CCOA #95

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Well sorry for taking so long to reply but for two days it wouldn’t let me post for some reason, so I gave up with that for a while.

Meanwhile, I found a 9" housing that’s the right width (52") and pulled a third member out of my grandpas garage. I even ordered some 31 spline axle shafts.

My machine shop looked around and got a nice cleveland block for $150. I found someone with a Torino with a stock, cracked 400 block and I sold him my 400, which had been cleaned, bored, and honed by the shop.

I also found a T56 out of a '93 Camaro, and picked it up for $550 in supposedly good condition. I payed core price so I’m happy. Also after deciding on tire size and getting the trans I did a bunch of figuring, basing all my figures off the stock setup for the trans in the camaro it came it, with a 3.24 rear end and slightly different tire size. I decided to change to cruising speed from ~1800 RPM @ 70 MPH stock in the camaro to 2000 RPM @ 70 MPH in my cougar with 27" rear tires and 3.70:1 rear end gears which I found, new, for $130 on ebay.

So then I did a bunch of figuring with the compression ratio and so far I can only find forged flat top pistons, all the dome/wedge top pistons I’ve found are hypereutectic and I’m concerned with their longevity at high compression. Plus flat top pistons are usually better than dome/wedge if possible for a better burn. Not to mention forged pistons and rods are almost the price of a stroker kit, and I’d still be relying on the stock crank. And after all that I can’t really get flat topped pistons to get to 12:1 CR with stock stroke. So to make everything easier I’m going with a SCAT rotating assembly to stroke it to a 408, all forged. I should be going to the machine shop tomorrow to pay for it, roughly 1900 after my shop balances it for 200.

I’ve been looking into EFI for the cleveland, but it seems a carb is going to be both cheaper and a little easier to tune for E85, but I’d really like ot hear from someone with experience, with either.

Also another roadblock I’ve run into is mating the T56 to the 351c. At first google it seemed easy and there was a lot of walkthroughs, but they all glaze over different aspects. Now that I have the transmission and I’ve been trying to source a bellhousing I’m findng that there’s a different bellhousing for each input shaft, which each has a different length and each appears to require it’s own midplate. Which is also confusing me because every midplate seems to have the same bolt pattern and would seem to fit every bellhousing the same and fit the same bearing in the same place on the same 31-tooth gear on the inside end of every input shaft that’s only difference is in length and splines outside the trans. The only differences I can find in midplates is the location for the fork or just small cutouts for hydraulic lines. I’d like someone with knowledge on these trans to tell me what the other differences are, if there are any. I’m curious if my LT1 midplate would work fine even if I have to swap the LT1 input shaft for an LS1 input shaft just to make it fit in the bellhousing to mate to my 351c?

Another question I have is which input shaft is the most preferred to mount to the 351c, or for swaps in general. And I’ve found 1/2" adapter plates that adapt the T56 to a “Old GM/Borg Warner/Muncie/Tremec/T10” bellhousing and they say you can use that clutch for that bellhousing. However, I can not find enough information on any of these different adapter plate (I think I found three different brands and designs) to know exactly what bellhousing I should then get. And on top of that, I’m not quite sure what input shaft length I should have for the adapters.

I’m also having no luck trying to source a clutch or clutch and brake pedal assembly for my 67. I’m wondering if there’s an aftermarket, universal clutch pedal with mount and master cylinder kit I could fit into my firewall with some cutting and drilling?

Also I’m wondering how to adjust the T56 speed sensor to read accurately, since I plan to be making a solid wooden dashboard and adding my own gauges in a close-to-stock pattern, and I’d like to either hook a digital speedo to the digital T56 sender or replace the sender if necessary and possible with a mechanical sender for a mechanical speedo. Personally I prefer the look of analog, rolling numbers on the odometer to the little digital window messing up my classic-looking gauge face.

My final concern as of recent is the fuel level sending unit in the tank. Even new ones are only built for gas it seems. E85 conducts electricity which is why E85 gas tanks are equipped with arc-proof sending units and flame-arresters in the fill neck. The fuel pump will have to be the same way. I’m not using the stock gas tank, I’m at least buying a new stock tank, but I’m considering opening up the old tank and taking the top sheetmetal off to make a tub, sealing it, and using it as a base to hold a fuel cell in the trunk. It’ll only be $50-100 more than a stock tank anyways, I’m still considering it.