68 Cougar XR7 - Sequential Turn Signal Troubleshooting - Running out of ideas

Cougar Community Classic Cougar Maintenance Restoration and Repair
1

Hey everyone, I’ve gone through a lot of the troubleshooting guides here, but I must be missing something. I feel like I’ve done most of the recommended steps, but there’s a chance the solution is buried somewhere deep in the forums. I’m very new to owning a Cougar, as I recently inherited the car. I’ve always been more of a computer person, so learning the basics of car maintenance has been a whole new experience. My apologies if any of this seems trivial, it’s been a process. My assumption is that my issues are ground-related, but I’m a more visual learner. If there’s a good way to see where the grounds are located, beyond just a wiring diagram, I would really appreciate it.

It’s best to assume that I’m not familiar with any unspoken steps, like lubricating a part or using certain additives. I just picked up a multimeter and had never touched one before, I’m really that new to this. However, I’m willing to learn, and I feel like that’s half the battle.

TLDR: The sequential lights work for hazards when the hazard button is slight pushed in but not when it is fully pushed in. The turn signal switch blows every time that I attempt to turn on the car.

Note: If there is a thread that already covers these exact issues I’m running into I am not above to reading through it. I feel like I have exhausted my options but there is a chance I missed something. I really appreciate any kind of help. This vehicle was my grandparents and it would mean the world to fix this in honor of them.

Pre-Turn Signal Issues

  • Using a solid state C8WY-13A366-AS

  • LED bulbs for the turn signal

  • 1157 bulbs for the headlights.

Order of events

  1. Noticed turn signals quit working while driving.

  2. Battery was old and dead per Auto Zone.

  3. Alternator was not holding a charge.

  • Replaced: Alternator

    • Action: Turn on car.

      • Result: Noticed the car turns on easier. No sequential lights.

  • Replaced: Battery

    • Action: turn on the car.

      • Result: Noticed the car turns on easier. No sequential lights.
  1. Read troubleshooting guides. (here are just the common ones that I’ve seen referenced and I have dug through them)
    1. https://forum.classiccougarcommunity.com/t/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-67-sequential-signals/2978/14
    2. http://www.thuntek.net/cougars_unlimited/69seqts.htm
  2. Found a blown fuse for the turn signal.

  • Replaced: the fuse,

    • Action: Turned on the car,

      • Result: turn signals do not work.

    • Action: Pushed the hazard button on (fully pushed in)

      • Result: the middle two lights turn on and off.

  • Replaced: the fuse again,

    • Action: Turn on the hazards (fully pushed in)

      • Result: the sequential turn signals work.

  • Replaced: Turn signal switch in the steering column.

  • Replaced: the blown fuse from before.

    • Action: Turn on the hazards with the button slightly pushed in.

      • Result: the sequential lights work with the hazards.

    • Action: Turn on the car.

      • Result: the turn signal fuse blows.
  1. Cleaned: the housing of the rear turn signal lights.

  • Noted: that the rear turn signal lights were LEDs. Noticed green substance on the LED lights. Possible corrosion?

  • Swapped: LEDs with standard bulbs.

  • Replaced: Blown Fuse

    • Action: Push hazard button slightly

      • Result: the sequential lights work with the hazards.

    • Action: Push hazard button all the way in.

      • Result: The middle lights only turn on for the turn signal lights.

    • Action: Turned the key but didn’t start the car.

      • Result: Fuse for the turn signals blows.

    • Action: With the blown fuse still in. Slightly push in the hazard button.

      • Result: the sequential lights work with the hazards.
2

Vic should be along shortly.

3 Likes
3

Sounds like possibly 1965 - 66 Mustang front turn signals have been substituted for the original 67-68 Cougar ones. They look similar but the wiring is very different. The Mustang ones, if plugged in, will blow the turn signal fuse.

Do an experiment - unplug both front turn signal lamps. Then replace the fuse. The rear turn signals should work and the fuse should not blow.

3 Likes
4

Thank you for the suggestion!

  • Update:

    • Removed: both of the front turn signal lamps.

      • Action: Pushed in the hazard button all the way.

        • Result: The turn signals worked with the hazards as they should. This is different from previously where I could only get this to work if I partially pushed in the hazard button.

        • Note: The fuse did not blow.

      • Action: Turned the key and engaged the turn signal.

        • Result: No working turn signal.

        • Note: The fuse was blown.

    • Replaced: blown fuse.

      • Action: Attempted to turn the car on and engage turn signal.

        • Result: Turn signal did not work.

        • Note: The fuse was blown.

Is there anything else I should test?

5

You should unplug them as the wiring is probably causing the problem, not the bulbs.

2 Likes
6

My apologies, you did say to unplug them.

  • Update:

    • Unplugged: both of the front turn signals.

      • Action: Hazards half pushed in

        • Result: Sequential turn signals work as expected.

      • Action: Hazards fully pushed in.

        • Result: Middle lights only activate for the turn signal.

        • Note: Fuse not blown.

      • Action: turn the key to the “on” position. The car is not turned on.

        • Result: Fuse is blown.
7

I am confused about turning the key. It sounds like you are not turning on the ignition switch to test the turn signals? The turn signals should not work with the key off. So does the fuse blow every time you turn the key? What about the accessory position? That is where you want to do this testing. You really don’t want the key in the run position unless the engine is running.

8

OK, Ive been reading this thread and have some good news and some areas that you will need to investigate but basically you are describing a dead short!! I just want to verify your original post indicated that everything had been working, and it stopped working when the battery/charging system failed. Was there any other electrical work done on your car just prior to your current issue? As Royce pointed out, the Mustang front turn signal housings are wired exactly opposite as Cougars and would cause a dead short. It is important to note that when you activate the Emergency blinkers, the turn signal switch is powered via a circuit breaker whereas the normal turn signal system is powered via the ignition switches Acc post to the inline fuse ( BTW just checking you are using a 15A fuse) then the turn signal switch.

First the good news:

“Action: Hazards fully pushed in.

Result: Middle lights only activate for the turn signal.

Note: Fuse not blown.”

This is exactly how the emergency flasher system is supposed to work. ONLY the middle lights should be blinking in this scenario. More importantly to note is that the emergency system is NOT powered via the ignition switch and fuse, rather it receives its power from the circuit breaker within the headlight switch.

Morerer good news:

Action: Hazards half pushed in

Result: Sequential turn signals work as expected.”

This is actually good because it narrows down your dead short to one of two areas:

Emergency k10 relay 

Turn signal switch

Emergency K10 circuit isolation:

It is important to note that the Emergency K10 relay is powered when from the ignition switch’s Acc post and turning the ignition to ON also powers the Acc post. The K10 circuit however is NOT powered on when the emergency flashers are activated. It is possible that this wire circuit #514 (blue wire) has rubbed thru against the body and is now grounding. One way to quickly test this theory is to depin this from the turn signal switch, turn on the ignition switch, does the fuse still blow? If it does not blow, then you know that this is the culprit. I do not know about the electronic sequencer systems but on an plain old k10, you can jumper the input wires for the left/right sides to their corresponding output wires and see if everything works.

You will need to trace the wire back to the sequencer and check for this wire chaffing on any items (body, sill plate, grommet missing passing thru openings etc …).

Assuming that the fuse does not blow, you should test the turn signal in left/right mode BUT in this scenario (because the k10 relay is disabled) onIy the middle lights will work!

Turn signal switch:

If however the fuse still blows after depinning circuit #514, your dead short is within the turn signal switch. You will have to remove the switch and examine it for any scorch marks and also check to make sure the pins are solid and tight. Carefully examine all of the wires going to the stalk, pay close attention to the input wire from the fuse holder to the turn signal circuit #8, and the internal circuits #44 power to the emergency post, #511b power out of the emergency post to the stalk and #511a power to circuit #514 discussed above.

Good Luck

Coach Jack

1 Like
9

I think an easier plan would be to unplug the K10 relay and the steering column. First replace the fuse. Turn they key to “On” and then try plugging in the K10 relay. If that does not blow the fuse try plugging in the steering column.

1 Like
10

I agree with Coach Jack. It appears that you have a dead short to ground.

It may be located in the steering column associated with either the turn signal switch 16 ga blue (44) or red (511A) wire. More likely to happen with a tilt instead of a standard column. Both wires have power when the key is on or accessory mode.

Another possibility is a short in the light blue wire (514) that feeds back to the K10 relay socket, under the door sill right under the rear quarter window. Cougar Bill had an open, where the wire got cut by the quarter window. Any damage to the wire could cause also cause a short. The K10 relay should have already been removed when installing the C8WY-13A366-AS system unit. If you have a Gen4 sequential system (without the light blue 514 wire), this wire could be disconnected at the turn signal switch connector permanently, by removing the pin as Coach Jack explained.

1 Like
11

And the real experts have spoken. Thank you!

2 Likes
12

So when Coach Jack asked, “BTW just checking are you using a 15A fuse?” it immediately raised a red flag. I had purchased extra fuses and didn’t remember buying any 15A ones.

It turns out the fuse that was blowing was a 14A fuse in the fuse block the one in the top left-hand corner dedicated to the turn signal. That’s the fuse I had been referring to. I did NOT check the in-line fuse. I’m not a car guy and didn’t even know that was a thing. I love that I’m learning so much here, but sometimes the person asking the question is missing something obvious.

I found the 15A in-line fuse, and sure enough, it was blown. I’ve ordered new fuses and will run my tests as soon as they arrive. My assumption is that the 14A fuse in the fuse block was blowing because the 15A in-line fuse was already blown. Is that correct?

It was also interesting to hear that Cougar Bill ran into an issue with the rear quarter window cutting the cable. That’s something I’ll need to investigate if I run into more problems once I replace the fuses. I have a very clear memory of my grandfather telling a much younger me NOT to touch that window. I always wanted to roll it down, and maybe that’s why he warned me. I had let my 6 year old daughter roll the window down not long before these issues started.

I appreciate everyone’s responses. I just wanted to point out my user error, and I’ll be more than happy to contribute back to the community by sharing my tests and findings.

More history.

TThe turn signal issues were discovered when I was taking the car in to have the tires changed (they had late-90s/early-00s tires from SEARS!). At that point, no work had been done to the car, and I just kept uncovering new issues. It has felt like a very “fun” game of whack-a-mole.

If this changes anything anyone has said so far, please let me know. I’m going to pause here until I can properly resume my testing and report back.

Thank you, everyone! Your help means the world to me, and this whole process has been a way for me to feel connected to my grandparents, even though they’ve passed.

1 Like
13

Have you contacted Vic Yarberry at Cougarsunlimited.net He helped me with the sequential tail lights on my ‘69 XR7

1 Like
14

Vic replied above :backhand_index_pointing_up:

1 Like
15

Don’t confuse the Cougar fuse diagram (left) with the Mustang (right). Sounds like you are blowing the back-up lamp/radio fuse.

Make sure no one has modified the turn signal switch feed wiring - look around the fuse box for added wires. Many times when the turn signal switch has failed, a work-around is used to hot-wire power to the red (511A)/blue(44) wire junction on the switch - by adding a jumper from the fuse box to the red (511A) wire.

The Cougar turn signal fuse is an 15A in-line fuse, located to the right of the steering column, up under the dash. It is inside a white twist-apart fuse holder in an orange/yellow wire.

image
image661×566 90.2 KB

The problem I helped Cougar Bill diagnose was due to the L quarter window falling down and pinching the wiring harness that runs underneath it.

1 Like
16

Hey everyone!

I wanted to report back that I was able to get the turn signals working!. Thank you to everyone who commented!

So what was the problem? It turned out to be the in-line fuse.

I’m new to working on cars. I work in cybersecurity and know computers inside and out, but I’m in my 30s and didn’t grow up working on older cars like this, so I’m at a disadvantage in several areas. I wanted to share this in case someone else is in the same situation.

When you’re troubleshooting this issue, there are two different fuse locations you need to check. The first is the in-line fuse. It can come in a few different colors, and it twists apart to reveal a 15A fuse (thank you, Coach Jack, for double-checking this). The in-line fuse runs from the steering column look under the dash on the right-hand side of the column to the fuse box that’s attached to the firewall.

To keep up with my previous posts.

  • Replaced: In-line 15A fuse

  • Replaced: 14A fuse that kept blowing when I turned the car on.

    • Action: Pushed in the hazards button.

      • Result: the sequential turn signals engage along with the hazards.

    • Action: Turned the ignition to the “on” position. (Car has NOT been turned on)

    • Action: Initiated right turn signal.

      • Result: Working as intended.

    • Action: Initiated left turn signal.

      • Result: Working as intended.

Next steps:

  • Install the front turn signal lights back in.

  • Swap out the 1157 bulbs for LEDs.

  • Pull the dash to upgrade the interior lights to LEDs.

  • Replace the old dash with a new upgraded chrome dash from WCCC.

  • Research buffing out scratches and getting matching paint for the car (it’s a non-standard paint job, so I’ll likely need a shop that can match the black paint and account for fading).

Thank you, everyone! Here’s a diagram I made while tracing the wires. I’m sure something like this already exists, but making it myself helped me better understand what each wire does. I appreciate this community so much. Thank you for helping me keep my grandparents’ memory alive!

Turn Signal Wires
Turn Signal Wires1908×1073 239 KB

1 Like
18

You’re absolutely spot-on with your analysis! I looked at this exact image but incorrectly assumed it was the one on the right (it didn’t specify mustang vs cougar when I found it). This whole post has just been a collection of user errors on my part. You’re all such wonderful people, and I couldn’t have done this without you. Thank you so very much!

19

Great to hear that you resolved your turn signal issue!! Now you can concentrate on your 14A fuse blowing in the fuse block. Does your car by chance have an aftermarket stereo installed? If it does, I recommend disconnecting the stereo, one of my other cars the stereo had an internal short that took me days to figure it out.

Good Luck

Coach Jack

1 Like
20

It actually has an aftermarket stereo mounted under the glove box. I haven’t been able to get it to turn on, and I just assumed it had gone bad since it’s probably 25+ years old (I remember it being there when my grandmother used to drive us around in the car). I’ll look into disconnecting it and focus on replacing it. Honestly, I’d prefer to reinstall the original radio anyway, which is currently disconnected.

Thank you for the advice! I’ll tackle that this evening when the kids go down for bed. I appreciate you!