Over the years I have heard so many stories, pretty much a weekly occurrence if not daily a customer cries on our shoulders here at WCCC. We are doing a video on how to choose the right Body Shop and how to avoid the many pitfalls. Could you share your “If I had it to do over again I would / would not…” stories? If you have pictures or video clips that would be really helpful. My main emphasis will be explaining that unless you are taking your Cougar to the likes of KTL or Cascade Classics DO NOT give them anything but what you want painted. That means a gutted car with 4 bald tires and a pair of vise grips in lieu of a steering wheel.
There are things about my project that I would just as soon not remember. Body shop jail is one of those.
What would I do different? To be honest, I’d probably would make the same mistakes again if I were doing it over. This is a hobby - supposed to be fun. My day job deals with contracts, law, annoying disputes. I wanted my hobby to be fun - handshakes and trust. I wouldn’t advise others to do it that way, but, again, this wasn’t supposed to be my day job.
Fortunately, most of the unpleasantries have become faded memories, and I’m starting to get the urge to do another project. Maybe time to see what the local vo-techs offer for body work for hobbyists. I envy the folks with the skills to do this part themselves.
P.S. I didn’t even give them vice grip steering… just a broomstick between the spindles…
“just a broomstick between the spindles…” Love it!
You have to approach this like a relationship, because it is one. You choose the people you deal with on an “inner circle basis” wisely. KTL & Cascade have certainly distinguished themselves as reliable, trustworthy, specialists and craftsmen over a long period of time, which is paramount to me.
I knew my body guy for 20 years, and had a great sense of his expertise, idiosyncrasies, etc., long before I asked him to help with the R Code, and my wife’s '66 Mustang. He had a long history of turning out concours-quality work on the early Fords. I also knew the things he did not do well, and knew I’d be hands on with respect to mechanical issues & keeping him supplied with proper parts at the proper moments. Even then it took forever. Both restorations have held up well too, 12 & 8 years later.
It worked out great for me & my projects, but somebody looking for a turn key job with little/no involvement on their part would have been seriously pissed off.
+1…handshake and a “do it” cost me a small fortune in body shop jail. Next time, I’ll DIY! (didn’t think I could “handle” metal repair then…)…
The local jail does bodywork for 25 bucks an hour.
I bet if you could smuggle in some cellphones and whatnot with the car, you could make a buck or two…KIDDING
Biggest thing I learned is to get EVERYTHING in writing!! Including the amount of time for the resto. What started out as a resto devolved into me funding the builder’s retirement. Here are the suggestions I would make:
- If your builder can get you in right away then beware. There aren’t a lot of guys with the skill set and reputation to do this kind of work and they are in demand. If they are sitting around waiting for you to call then something is wrong.
2)EVERYTHING in writing including and especially the length of resto. The handshake and “My word is my bond” thing is absolute bulls****. ANY builder that is hesitant about doing a detailed contract is up to no good. No exceptions.
3)Get on the forums and check out recommendations.
4)You are really much better off learning to do the work yourself and minimizing any work that has to be farmed out. If you are satisfied being ignorant of these cars then you almost certainly will be swindled.
rogerpir makes a good point with #1. I had a to wait 2.5 years before I could get my car into my buddies shop that does wicked body and paint work.
Don’t mean to hijack this thread but the same goes for machine shop work.
To the point-I needed a simple stupid 9 to 1 short block, in this case pistons, rods sized ,decked etc. I had everything else and told the big time engine builder everything but the color of the car. The weekend before leaving for Talladega I found out I had 11 to 1. “Yeah, they sent me the wrong pistons.” I told him my mother would have trouble changing a light bulb and that’s O.K. as a guy has to love his mom no matter what. But even she would know to double check if not triple check these things.I straightened that mess out myself.
Paint jail? There was simply more than first thought but I’ve known the guy forever. Always plan to spend more than you thought you would. A lot more. Job came out great.Once you start you want to finish it.
All postings have good info.
The “paint jail” phenomenon is going to play out in every skilled trade going into the future. Few are training in these fields. Try finding an upholsterer, electrician, rough carpenter, roofer, etc. It’s amazing how these guys can gouge you. The body shops are especially prone to offenses because the guys they hire are problem people that can’t get jobs elsewhere (many times due to past and current lifestyle choices) and can’t show up for work for the time it takes to “do” a car.
I recently had a good experience with a body shop. I gave them another car to paint and it was a catastrophe. The shop owner hired/assigned a substance abuse guy to my car. I stopped by after a few weeks to find the car sitting out back behind the shop in the rain/mud with the glass removed. I had a meltdown and took the car out of there. Same shop, two different experiences.
I’d like to follow up on my last post. I don’t mean to paint all body shop workers in a bad light (Pretty punny, huh?) There are some very honest and talented shops that do great work for a just price. I’ve had the full range of experiences throughout decades in the hobby. My observations include:
- If you don’t have the stomach for the gritty side of life, buy a “done” car.
- Once you go through a full restoration of a car, you know why Barrett-Jackson cars are so pricey.
- Few cars are really worth a full scale restoration. Many people loose thousands if they choose the wrong car to restore or do it for perceived profit.
- I don’t need a “perfect” car. They’re more often just sources of stress when trying to keep frisbees, rock chips and scratches off.
- More joy comes from driving a car that having it sit in a shrine.
- Most cars with medium/heavy rust should never be restored. There are 10x the number of worthy, rustfree cars than people that will see a restoration through to finish. There are always exceptions.
- Most cars with medium/heavy rust could be given to you and they’d still be loser restoration candidates. Nobody gives you a car.
And now…to end on an optimistic note…
- Few things in life give me as much joy as seeing perfected mechanical, vintage automotive art rolling down the road or parked in the beach parking lot with a cooler in the trunk.
- The friends/relationships made through the hobby make it all worth while.
There is some experience speaking right there folks… I was ready to apply for a job at NAPA before reading #8 and #9, thanks for talking me off the bridge.
427XR7 makes excellent points.
There are good people out there but they can be hard to find.
About paint jobs. Ever notice a shop will do, say, 10 great paint jobs and the 11th one’s horrible? Personnel change?
I might as well throw my experience in too.
Beware of the “backyard” body & paint guys who seem like a great bargain, or at least know what their limitations are. I got a lot of rust repair done on my car by this kind of guy at a very reasonable rate, and he actually did a pretty decent job. At first, he didn’t have much else going on, so he was working on my car pretty consistently and getting stuff done. But then he wanted to move the car to a different location, where he could work on it and other projects. Things got slower at this point. (So also beware of guys who don’t even have their own shop space to work on stuff and have to borrow space and tools from their buddies).
If you do use someone like this for the metalwork / rust repair / etc, make sure they have the ability to actually seal and paint the car before you let them do this. Should be an obvious red flag that they don’t have access to a real spray booth (live & learn). What I should have done is stopped when the car was in primer, or right before then, and taken it to a “real” body shop to have the finishing prep and paint done. In my case with “budget man,” I ended up waiting 2 years after the shell was painted to finally get the hood, trunk lid and fenders done, and they looked like poo. Also discovered that the rear window patch was done wrong, creating a big gap at the trunk lid. Because of all this, I’m now spending thousands more $$$ at a “real” shop to get things done right, I’m massively delayed on when I could have had the car done, and I’ve lost a lot of the enthusiasm I once had for the project, which is really a bummer.
By contrast, the “real” shop where it is now is a restoration shop that only does classics. They have a large (~20) constantly rotating inventory of classic cars getting work done, and I can see progress on them every time I go visit. Because the cars are in various stages, I can see examples of their metal fabrication, rust repair, bodywork, paint, etc. They are constantly busy, have several skilled employees, quality tools, and the owner will talk your ear off about any and all of the cars they’re working on, because he’s passionate about what they’re doing. All this, and they work in a plain, nondescript building in a small town. No flashy signage or showroom, just a bunch of guys working on classic cars. The extra money I’m spending is painful, but I know the car is going to look WAY better than it ever would have before, with “budget man” at the helm, and in the long run it’ll be something I’ll be proud of, rather than disappointed in.
Hmmm…and Don didn’t warn you clear, Andy?? I’d send him the over and above!!! 
I mean, I didn’t initially intend on doing a complete resto, it just kinda turned out that way… Don’s suggestion at the time was to make the car a convertible.
And you didn’t listen to him…
Some times that is a good thing. Too bad the work didn’t turn out well. But you will be happy when it is done.
Hang in there Andrew. Once you see that shiny mint paint job all finished up you will get that motivation back to finish the project up. Hope you are knocking off some side projects with the remainder of the car parts while the car is in paint. Looking forward to an update soon with some mint paint job photos.
Cheers,
Ceader’s auto body in Danville Il did the body on my '68 for Dad (would have done it himself if he were a little younger. getting hard for him to get down low). They took it over the winter which is about 4 mo. in Illinois. Actually got it done two weeks early. That being said, it is a small town so they HAVE to give good service, and quality work as their customer base is very small. They did a great job for the money so I have no complaints. I have heard a few nightmare stories here in Atlanta however, and would probably haul a car from here to Il to have them do it. We did hook my Stepdad up with a kid who did our collision repairs for the motorcycle shop for his Duster. He gave him a terrific price with the understanding that it would be done as time permitted between collision repairs. Still, he got it done in six months and now only does cars. I guess we have had a good luck thus far.