Classic Car Insurance Lesson Learned

I learned an important lesson this morning and wanted to pass it along to anyone else who has classic car insurance with agreed-value coverage.

As some of you may recall, last fall my '69 Corvette had an electrical fire. The insurance company (American Collectors), after 2 of their investigator/appraisers came out, decided to repair it rather than total it.

Recently, the restoration shop submitted their final supplemental bill to the insurance company. Only painting of the front clip, minor reassembly, and detailing remain to be done. However, that final supplemental bill brought the repair total over the threshold for the insurance company to total the car. My agreed-value policy has the car at $32,500. Their threshold to declare it a total loss is $24,712. The repair bill total was $27,673.

The choice they gave me was this:

Option 1 - If I wanted to keep the car, they’d pay me the agreed value minus the salvage value and brand the car with a salvage title. I would keep the car but it’s value would be lowered and, depending on the salvage value, I could be out of pocket after paying the repair bill.

Option 2 - If I didn’t want to keep the car, they’d pay me the agreed value but I’d be left with no car and about $5K, after the shop bill was paid.

Either way, their policy allows them to wait until the car is practically done to decide to total it, leaving their insured with unacceptable choices and taking most of the loss their insurance was supposed to protect against.

I believe this could happen with any insurer but I recommend that everyone find out if their insurer can change the decision to repair at the 11th hour and after tens of thousands of dollars of repair bills have been run up.

Fortunately, the shop is as opposed to a salvage title as I and they are going to reduce their total bill (to the insurance company) to keep it under the threshold for a total loss determination. We may end up owing them something in the end but it’s likely to be a lot less than the value hit of a salvage title and I’ll still have a virtually new 1969 Corvette with a clean title.

Should I ever find myself in a situation like this again, the lesson is to not allow any work to start until the damage is fully and completely evaluated and a not-to-exceed number is established. Failing that, if the damage is anywhere within spitting distance of a total loss, I’ll insist on that from the start.

As it happens, my insurance was due to renew this month anyway. I’m now with Grundy through a local agent that has all our other policies.

What insurance company did you have? Hagerty seem very good.

American Collectors is the insurance company.

Grundy is not a great company… I got hit by a very old man years ago… Cop asks me if he should get a ticket… I ask Cop if places were reversed would he be asking the same question? The old guy got a ticket, I got canceled by Grundy… after 15 years being w/ them & having over 5 cats (now 9)

All I can say is Hagerty is the best & I have a good friend as an agent!!!

I have never had Grundy as an insurer. The reason is that they told me they would not insure a “project” car that I owned - and the state would not issue license plates with no insurance coverage. All in all they appeared to be really clueless when I contacted them.


[quote

My luck with insurance over the last 10 years hasn’t been great. BBCat (67 XR-7 GT) was damaged, post-restoration, when a tree limb speared it through the roof of my enclosed trailer. Liberty Mutual wanted to total it when the damage exceeded $5K. That got resolved but then I decided to get it with a classic car insurer. Hagerty wouldn’t take it because of the Liberty Mutual claim, so I ended up with American Collectors. At this point, Hagerty is not an option so I don’t care how good they might be.

I went with Grundy because of our agent. We’ll see how that works out. I actually made the switch a couple of weeks ago because it was renewal time and the events of this morning solidified my irritation with American Collectors.

The bottom line here is for folks to find out if their insurer, Hagerty or whomever, could pull a last-minute switch on them if hidden costs arise after the decision to repair has been made and acted upon.

Appreciate this heads-up! Does anybody have experience with classic cars insured at declared value through State Farm? Their rates were less than Hagerty, but I have always wondered if Hagerty might be better to deal with on a classic car claim.

I am a big fan of Hagarty. Folks may remember my car was hit while I was having lunch by an uninsured driver on a Friday afternoon.

The adjuster was onsite Tuesday, They let me find parts of my choosing (door & fender) and shop. I asked for a shop referral and they gave me three fairly local places.

Not so much as a hint of issue. Kind of how it is supposed to be.

:grinning:

I am confused…

I get that they can cap coverage at the agreed amount. Is that what they did?

Does anyone have any experience with Heacock? I have never had to file a claim with them and was wondering if anyone else has had issues.

Catvert:
No option 3? Insurance company would pay up to the total loss value and you pay the rest to the shop and keep clean title.

Seems to me that’s the more reasonable solution than the other two.

Essentially, they hit their threshold of repair/don’t repair but not until the final supplemental bill was submitted. At that point, they wanted to declare the car a total loss and initiate the agreed-value payout one of two ways. Either I buy the car back from them at salvage value that would be deducted from the payout and accept that the car would be branded with a salvage title, or take the payout and give up the car but then owe all but about $5K of the payout to the shop (since the work was virtually complete at that point). The insurance company would get a virtually brand-new 69 Corvette and I’d get to keep $5K after paying the repair bill.

Here’s how I summed up my perspective on a Corvette FB page:

I think some folks are missing the point here. The insurance company adjusters (two of them) estimated the damage at $12-15K, so they weren’t even in the same time zone as the actual damage. The shop immediately raised the estimate to $20-22K based on experience and Corvette expertise, but they hadn’t yet pulled the steering column and dash out to see that the damage extended through that harness and some of the controls.

These things happen with restoration projects. You peel back the onion and more is revealed. A classic car insurance company should know that and have up-front processes, disclosed to the customer, to handle it. One of those simple process changes is to simply tell the repair shop the number they can’t exceed at insurance company expense if the car is to be repaired.

Or tell them they must do 100% of the diagnostic work before submitting a not-to-exceed estimate. Then the repair or total decision gets made and the customer exposure is limited to the labor associated with a thorough tear-down diagnostic.

What they should not do, at the 11th hour, is say “Oops, we don’t want to pay that much so either take a reduced payout and a salvage title or lose your car and use your payout to pay the shop for the repairs you no longer get to keep.”

That, and only that, is the point I’m making. Not asking the insurer to write a blank check; just to use their heads and keep the customer experience and outcome at the forefront of what they do.

Midlife, that’s what I worked out but it wasn’t one of the options the insurance company suggested. Once I knew what the threshold was and figured out the difference, I suggested that to the claims rep. He agreed that the shop could change their final bill, so that’s what they’re doing. I’m pretty sure the shop is going to do what they can to reduce my end of the overage.

My rant is just with the idea that the insurance company can suddenly pull a switchup like this long after the customer has been told the car will be repaired.

I guy I use to work with was big into cars. He suggested I use American Modern for insuring a vintage car. They have policies that take into consideration customization and improvements beyond “regular” value. I have never made a claim so can only hope it’s not like the OP.

In my experience when your car gets totaled they pay the stated value. Then they give you the option of buying the cat back with a salvage title. Or if you elect to have it fixed they will pay up to the stated value. I don’t understand how they suddenly get to pss as y short of the agreed value as that is the very point of a stated value policy. Is this a Massachusetts no fault thing?

:paw_prints:
Thank you for posting and I am glad that in the end it all sounds like it worked out. I was with the same company out of Cherry Hill MJ and switched to Hagerty as several people I know had claims which were handled really well.

Ultimately I hope to never have a claim and feel thankful when people in our hobby have claims and they are handled as we all hope that they will be.

We certainly can all appreciate enthusiasts share real life experiences to help others avoid possible.

www.CougarClub.org
:paw_prints:

There are two absolute rules with insurance companies:

Rule 1 : insurance companies never loose,

Rule 2: rule one never changes…


and the agreed value is only what they agree to, and that goes down , but they never tell you by how much,
but they still take you monies based on what you thought you had agreed to …

This seams backwards from the very start. I’ve never had an Insurance company adjuster on a car claim look at it before getting an estimate from the repair shop. Usually the adjuster wants the shop estimate and they can agree/disagree with the amount and work it out with the repair shop before the work is started. A fire on a fiberglass car would have lots of hidden cost should have went right to the total category. If I was the adjuster I would’ve totaled it and paid you off with the option you can keep it with a clean title and do whatever you want with it. Insurance companies don’t like to fix a car that is going to cost more that 80% of it’s valve. Hidden cost at that point can really rack up and then they are committed to continue and fix it. Shame on your repair shop for not including all wiring and controls be replaced. That’s a given it’s all going to be shorted out and damaged in a fire.

They were going to pay the stated value. Then I’d either buy the car back for salvage value and get a salvage title or I’d give up the car and take the money. In either scenario, the shop has to be paid.

In the former, I’d still have the car and benefit from the repairs, but I’d take the value hit for the salvage title and, depending on the salvage value, might end up having to come up with money or put a small amount in my pocket.

In the latter, I’d give up the car but still have to pay the shop for the repairs, leaving me with no car and about $5K.

It’s not anything to do with MA insurance rules as far as I know.

Foremost - I am terribly sorry to hear of your fire. These are traumatic events.

As some of you may remember - I too had a car fire in 2017 which damaged my beloved `71 XR-7 vert.

Hagerty has been a disaster. Not due to poor coverage - but because the adjuster they sent to evaluate the damage was a knuckle-dragging idiot. A buffoon.

This guy didn’t know much about cars, parts, part value, R&R time. The estimate he provided to Hagerty was so incomplete and inaccurate that I fought for years to get a proper settlement for the damage. Case in point, paint and body labor initially estimated at $30 per hour. Yes, maybe in Guatemala. He didn’t provide allowances for many major and easily sourced components - such as the brake booster and P/S hoses. Said he “couldn’t find” sources or prices for these items - left that up to me to source and supplement. :wall: :wall:

Bottom line is this; the insurance is only as good as the rubber on the road - the adjuster.

Hagerty uses independent adjusters, many of who are self professed classic car appraisers. This does NOT make someone qualified to evaluate damage - thoroughly.

Hopefully Grundy is better - but given the massive (and I do mean massive) profits Hagerty earns from classic car P&C insurance, I’d have expected qualified adjusters.

Your mileage may vary. Caveat Emptor.