Distributor doesn't want to go back in

Cougar Community Classic Cougar Maintenance Restoration and Repair
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Engine won’t stay running for more than maybe 3 seconds, super low rpm, rough, then dies. Doesn’t respond to the gas pedal when “running” like this either.

I did the primary ignition test as described in the shop manual and got spark just fine from the secondary to the engine block. So that means that if the problem is indeed electrical, which I still feel like it is, then the problem is in the distributor, wires (which are brand new) or plugs.

Since I had no idea the age or quality of the plugs I went ahead and picked up a set, so I can write down the exact date and mileage they were put in the car. Halfway through and I’ve come across two issues one of which I hope isn’t major.

The gaps of cylinder 1-4 plugs were 40, 41.5, 34 and 34, so that’s a mess. I replaced 1-3 with brand new autolite 45’s gapped to 35, but when I pulled #4 I got a frowny face. The entire threaded part was soaked in oil. Is that fine? Horrible? Irrelevant? There was no oil on the threaded parts of the first 3, and I suspect there shouldn’t be. The actual spark-generating elements didn’t have a coating of oil on them. The white part is still pretty much white, like the other 3. When I brought the plug from #1 to the CarQuest with me, dude said it looked like it was still in ok shape to use. There’s rust on the hex-bolt shaped part of the body of each plug, but other than that they look ok.

I’m hesitant to even put the new plug in #4 if it’s gonna get messed up from the oil on the threaded part. Oh and fwiw, there’s no oil leakage at that the #4 opening, and no signs of oil leakage with the car in general.

How’s this all sounding?

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Oil on the threads for #6 as well, not as much as #4 but still noteworthy. #5 was clean.

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Talked to my dad’s buddy and he said it sure sounded like I had the distributor back in off by a tooth. Recommended I try starting it and then rotating the distributor slightly one way or another slightly until I could get her to stay running. I did, and it worked, sort of…

With the distributor rotated as far clockwise as it would go before the vac advance hit the tree, the engine would start and run much less rough than before. But still not right.

So I lifted the distributor out enough to rotate the rotor one tooth in that direction, and oriented the distributor more or less like it was originally. Then I started it, and she ran pretty close to normal, after I rotated the distributor slightly back and forth until I found the spot where the idle was the smoothest and highest rpm.

Seemed great. Let it idle like that for a while, but after maybe a minute, maybe two, the engine cut out completely, just died out of the blue, not a sputter but just a total shutdown, just like it was doing at the very beginning of all of this.

Tried a couple times to restart but the behavior is exactly like before, wants to start under the power of the starter, starts firing, but as soon as I stop pushing the ignition button (remote start button today, but last time was me turning the key) just total shutdown.

Something he suggested was after getting the electrical/timing issue to a stable operating place (like it just was for a minute) to check the fuel supply to see if it’s getting gas right. I know it’s getting gas, since it just ran over a minute and because when I replaced the plugs, the ones that came out smelled like gas. But I guess it can’t hurt to check. I’m gonna pull the fuel filter that was installed like 30-50 miles ago. It shouldn’t be full of crap, but I guess anything is possible.

I just tried starting her up again, just to see. After a couple tries where it would immediately shut down after I returned the key to the on position, the third try she’s now idling pretty smoothly again. Oil pressure is right around 50 as always. Engine temp is off the gauge low of course. Amp meter is just slightly to the plus side. Cooling system is pressurized and the hose is pretty hot.

Been running for several minutes now. Pretty smooth. Manifold vacuum is at a little over 19, the highest I’ve ever seen it. Maybe from having plugs that are brand new and, more importantly, properly gapped?

The exhaust sounds really good. Running really smooth. I tried bringing the rpm up to see what would happen and above about 1500 the engine starts getting a little rough. I’m guessing that’s because the timing is in a range where it can at least run and idle, but is not set where it needs to be, where the mechanical advance is pushing it too far.

The random shutdown thing that happened the first time, can I do anything to try and figure that out? I’d hate to have that happen on the road, or worse, the highway.

Ok, well I’ve learned a little bit and hopefully when all is said and done she comes out of it healthier and stronger than when I first goofed everything up. Man do I love this car!

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Oh and one more thing, I don’t know where I got it in my head that the choke was connected to battery +. It was connected to the “I” terminal of the solenoid. That’s no good either.

I’ve read a lot of forum posts by a lot of people, now, on this subject, and there seems to be lots of varying opinion and people claiming this worked for them for 10 years and that worked for them for 10 years and on and on. But the answer I trust most is that there should be a relay triggered off the stator terminal on the alternator, or a relay triggered off the ignition switch itself.

Stator is the right way, right? Anybody have a specific relay they can recommend?

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Have you checked your connections in the distributor?my old mustang had a similar problem and it turned out to be a loose connection where the condenser wire attached to the points.

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Have not checked for loose wires inside the distributor. I was thinking I would replace the condenser, since it’s an old capacitor and looks to me to be an electrolytic (and those have a service life of 10 years, 20 year maximum) but I really want to just go ahead and switch to the pertronix points-free setup, so, don’t want to spend money on parts I won’t be using anymore. The wires inside the distributor are all screwed down and everything, it’s not like there are any that are loose enough that they look disconnected. But I can poke around there and see if any connection might look solid but actually not be.

Thanks so much to snafu for what turned out to be the right solution.

If only it wasn’t raining today, I could take her over to the parts shop and borrow their timing light and get her all set up in their parking lot. As it is, I’m gonna have to take the Toyota to the store and hopefully borrow the light to take back to my garage. And I won’t get her out of the garage cause it’s raining enough that the alley is gonna be puddle city. :-/

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I went ahead and bought a timing/rpm meter. Found some really interesting stuff.

First off, the timing as I had it yesterday was off by a mile. It was at about 40! And second, there is a really big discrepancy between the dashboard tach and the digital one.

I’m going to start a different thread about that, though, because this one already went way too far off-topic for the initial subject. I’ll call it something about adjusting idle factory tach vs digital.

Thanks so much for your help guys. Great to have her running. Wish it wasn’t raining all day.