Coach, your suspicion is test was correct. Test 3 shows a much higher fluctuating voltage measured across the Solid State Sequencer. I measure across black in and orange-green out. Test 1 and 2 showed no different. As an aside, circuit #514, (blue ex solid state) does not fully de-energise when Hzsw is on, but the voltage does reduce.
Moving to the turn signal switch, it appears that I do have the C8WY-13A366, and the C8SZ-13A366A (picture attached). The single barrel flasher has been spliced into the circuit #459 (Orange-Green) circuit, and sits between an Orange-Green and Black-Green wire.
From the photo, a couple of things seem odd.
- a black ground wire which goes no-where,
- a blue-red wire which goes no-where
- a yellow which goes onto a relay/fuse (?), but nothing coming out.
- a contact on the back side of a what I think is the flasher unit, which is not being used.
I suspect the barrel flasher was put in due to a fault on C8WY-13A366, or C8SZ-13A366A. Any suggestions on where to go from here would be greatly appreciated.
AJ
After a bit more fiddling I have established that the flasher unit C8WY-13A366 is working on the Hazards, but I have no idea what the two units in Q1 in the second picture are. The bluse-red wire is coming out of the fuse unit.
AJ,
Unfortunately, the PO did a hack job on the wiring harness. I am guessing that the PO spliced in the emergency flasher can because the original Sequential Motor did not work. In any case, switching to a Solid State Sequencer should have solved the problem however with the wiring hacked up, you will have to do some electrical tracing.
Is your Cougar an XR7 or a standard? Does it have a tilt/swing away steering column? Do the headlights and interior lights work? Are there any other non-factory wiring splices that you can see?
I would definitely trace the wires from the Turn Signal Switch to the K7 relay and from the K7 relay back to the Sequencer. I suspect that the flasher barrell is spliced in somewhere between these wires.
Good Luck
Coach Jack
I re-read your post and you do point out that the flasher can is spliced between #459 ( output of K7, input to Sequential ) and a green - black wire.
Trace the green black wire as it should eventually splice back to the Orange - Green wire , unless the PO pulled a new green - black wire all the way back to the Sequencer. If you verify that this is the case, remove the flasher barrell, and (do I dare say this!) splice the wires together.
Remember on a 67 and 68 Cougar, the Sequential motor provides the flashing of the center hazard lights as well as sequencing the taillights. This is why they do not have flasher barrells.
Coach Jack
Success. You were dead right, I removed the flasher barrell, connected the two wires and the indicators sequence !!. A thing of beauty. Thank you, thank you.
Its a XR7.
Good to hear it was an easy fix. Now enjoy driving your Cougar!!!
Coach Jack
Hopefully this helps me to narrow down whats wrong with mine. Cant view it on my comp. some reason my comp. doesn’t open pdf files. going to have to use my phone.
Hey kid,
The pdf file is 29 pages long so I don’t think you’ll want to read it on your phone.
Coach Jack
OK so I put power to K10 and started the car the hazards blink slowly, going to the turn signals the dash indacators still both illuminate but now there is steady out side rear light blinking with intermittent middle light blinking in sequence, never the inside light.
it seems that with key on turn signal turned either way I get sequential motor going and out board blinking middle intermittent blinking and no blinking on the inboards and dash indacators illuminated, both, there bright and lightly pulsing. They blinked slowly with the hazards on. all of this was with 12 volt power added to K 10 relay in the trunk, does this show that the K7 turn signal relay is bad, Im not sure as there is power to the sequencer motor, thanks Paul. Also is a circuit breaker resettable on these cars, or do they act more like a fuse ?
You need to test the lights with the battery fully charged AND the engine running. The K7 relay provides power to the Sequential Motor, where the Sequential motor directs the power to the inner, middle and outer taillights. The blinking of the taillights is caused by the 3 cams that are internal the the sequential motor. It is possible that the cam contacts are worn or have deposit build up on them, you can open up the sequential motor and clean them with de-oxit or similar electrical cleaning products.
When the K10 relay is powered, it only connects the inner and outer taillights from the sequential motor to the Main sequential relays K8/K9. When you turn on the emergency flashers, it then disconnects power to the K10 relay thus the Sequential motor only directs power to the middle taillights. Note the sequential motor always provides power to the middle taillights when the SQM is powered!
Coach Jack
I took the sequential motor in for a contact cleaning and continuity test and its in great shape, so now I’m all most there. The head lights work with full tail lights. The hazard lights are working, blinking in the front valance, left and right indicators blinking, and the center rear lights blinking also with the brakes operating. Turn signals are the problem, left turn activated and there is blinking in the front valance, both dash indicators somewhat blinking, both are illuminated, and only the rear center blinking. This is the same with the right side and both sides work as described with the brake applied. All the while the sequencer motor is turning. All of this testing is with the engine running and a fully charged battery as all of the lights operating are nice and very bright.
Paul,
Have you probed to make sure the SQM is outputting voltage on the inner and outer circuits? If the SQM is sending voltage out the inner 436 and outer 438 circuit, check to see if the K10 relay is also putting out voltage on the 436A and 438A circuits. These two circuits are then fed to the K8/K9 Main sequential relay where these relays will allow the appropriate left or right taillights to illuminate. Below is a diagram of the P79 connector that plugs into the K10 relay. Note, you can bypass this relay by making two jumper wires with male connectors at each end. Place one connector on 436 and the other connector of the same wire onto 436A. Do the same with the other wire jumping 438 and 438A.
[attachment=0]k10 p79 connector.jpg[/attachment]
BTW, do this set of tests with the brakes OFF.
Coach Jack
Hi Coach Jack, I think I lost focus when you suggested to jump out K10 earlier but I did that today and the tail lights sequenced great, I believe I thought that it wasn’t the problem because it was replaced with a electronic K10 switch previously. So I need a new K10 also when jumped out both dash indacators were blinking at the same time can any thing be done about that, thanks Paul.
Is a electronic part replacement any better that a NOS one if available ?
I am having an issue that I can’t seem to figure out. I have a 1967 base model with signal issues. I have replaced the trunk relay unit with the cougars unlimited solid state unit (c7wy-13a366-as), I have replaced the K7 relay with the cougars unlimited replacement (c7wy-13a366-cr), and I have replaced the turn signal/hazzard switch (non-tilt) in the column. With the Key off both of the signal indicators in the dash panel stay illuminated. With the key still in the off position if I move the turn signal switch in either the left or right position the indicators turn off but do not operate. When I turn the key on and the left blinkers work perfectly but I have no right hand blinker function. I also have no brake lights but the brake switch wires get very warm. I have disconnected the brake wire output for now until I solve the problem. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you…
I suspect that the turn signal switch pins are not in the correct location. Apparently, there is power on the orange/black wire feeding the K7 relay all the time. Verify that the turn signal switch is working correctly using an ohmmeter with the switch unplugged. Also visually verify that turn switch pins are inserted into the correct location on the both sides of the connector. A turn signal switch diagnosis guide and a 1967 Cougar turn signal switch connector diagram is available from my website: www.cougarsunlimited.net
If the brake light switch is getting warm, current must be passing through it. Use a voltmeter to check for power on both sides of the switch. If the switch is stuck on, remove it to see why.
I wish we had a like button! Thanks for jumping in Vic!
This may or may not be turn signal related. I have a typical problem of dash indicator lights just staying on and pulsing lightly when turn signals or flashers on, but turn signals themselves work fine. I will do some checking with the appropriate relay, as well as my ground by alternator etc. The only way I have tested my lights up to this point is with car not running with just a trickle charger battery maintainer on. Don’t matter if battery is full, or down a tad.
The other problem I have though I found when I was checking to see if the dash indicator lights came on when the headlights were on. Noticed that my front only marker lights only come on with the headlight switch in the “first out” position. As soon as I pull it “full out” they do not work. My front turn signals work fine in either location. My dash indicator lights act the same also in either position, just come on when activating turn signal and flasher and stay lit for the most part with just real faint pulsing. Could the two problems (dash indicator lights, and marker lights not working in “full out” position) be related in anyway? What would the possible resolve be for marker light issue if unrelated?
Thanks!
David
