Ford 460 in a Cougar?

Which ever way you go 351 or 460 you should be happy. As long as you don’t drop a Chebby engine in your cat, Ford power is the way to go! Good luck with the Bronco.
Steven

I like what cougarcj said about his 393. If you want cubes, stroke a 351. Everything fits better (once you work out the header issues) and the weight saved is a bonus.

The weight isn’t that much of a penalty, and the torque difference is substantial.
Dollar for Dollar, it’s hard to beat the 460 for power. It can make 500hp without even needing midgrade gas.

HP to weight ratios are worth considering for power and handling. 120 pounds diff (some say even more) is considerable. In cars like ours that (with stock suspension) pushes with a small block, that is the difference between being close to the ditch in a tight turn versus in the ditch! It takes more than a minor tweak to get even the most potent stock 460 (335 or so was highest rated and there ain’t many of them) up to 500 horsepower. Torque moved things though and that is a big plus. Additionally stroking the 351 means aftermarket heads. Putting all those cubes in the middle don’'t mean anything if you can’t feed them. Trade offs abound no matter which way one goes in the cubes quest.

this is true. Trade offs do abound.
There’s no magic pill.

The Performer RPM package makes 514 hp at 5,400 and 565 lb-ft of torque at 4,400. You don’t even need to know any secrets. You don’t need to spend hours asking people for advice on forums. You just order the parts, bolt it together, and bladow! (provided you can use a torque wrench and remember “righty tighty”)

For a real $$ saver that’s lighter, the 400 can be built to nearly 500 lbs/ft for less than 2 grand. And with a set of CHI 3v heads will be very close to a Windsor in weight.

The 408W is a popular choice for a lot of reasons, but it’s just one way to go.

Let’s Roll I know there are many different combinations to increase cubic inches, hence your signature. ““The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic bucks!” - me
67 Cougar
408
4 speed
4 wheel disc”
How did you get your 408? What combination did you use?
Steven

Ford Engine weights (iron heads and intakes)

289/302 – 480
351W - 525
351C - 550
351M/400 - 575
FE - 625
429/460 - 720

So you’d have to make 50hp more from a 460 to get the same performance as a 351-based engine just to overcome the weight factor! That is without getting into the fact that the 200 extra pounds of the 460 are sitting waaaay out front so weight transfer (and therefore traction) become an issue.

My 393W is about 480 crank horsepower (400hp at the rear wheels) at 5500 and around 495 lb/ft torque at 4500 with my comp cams XR-276HR cam. I built my engine six years ago, before the explosion of ‘kits’ for DIY strokers. Lots of kit vendors out there these days. We’ve used Coasthigh.com and cnc-motorsports.com for our engines. If I were to build my engine toady, I’d forget the 393W and go right to the 408…

I have been following this thread and I understand stroking and destroking an engine. What combo makes the 408? Is it a Windsor based stroke or a FE combination?
Steven

I did the W stroker conversion on my cat and was a nice streetable combination. As mentioned before, with the increased cubic inches, you have to increase the airflow capabilities as well or you’ll end up with a slug. This means forget the factory iron heads and manifolds.

I’ve also seen people do the 429/460 conversion only to be very disappointed with performance. The problem was again airflow. Most of these engines were made to pull huge cars and pickups at 3500rpm maximum. To optomize performance aftermarket heads, intake, converter and gears.

Have you considered a 347 stroker for your 302?

408= .030" overbore and a 1/2" stroker crank. 4.030"b x 4"s

I’m no expert, but I believe it’s a 351W based stroke for the 408…IIRC…

When a stroker uses a Windsor block, the displacement is followed by a W, hence 393W or 408W. A stroked Cleveland will have a C, like 383C…

393W - uses 3.85" stroke crank instead of the 351s 3.50 stroke and a 4.030 bore. Stock 5.955" Windsor rods. stock-type 302 pistons. This makes for a very cheap solution to gain 40 inches.

408W - uses 4.00" stroke crank. Most use a smaller rod journal so block-to-rod clearance is not an issue. Most use 6.200 or 6.250" rods and lighter pistons.

418W - uses 4.10" stroke crank. Generally uses 6.200" rods and same pistons as 408 listed above.

427W - most use 4.20" stroke crank - block clearancing is needed, another solution is an aftermarket block (World, Eagle, Dart, etc) that allows a larger bore and a 4.00" stroke crank.

Thanks that makes things clear for me.
Steven

How does a 347 stroker compare to a base 351W, both with comparable heads etc. More torque?

347 is a 4.030 bore and a 3.4" stroke in a 302 block, shorter rods. Stock 351W uses a taller block (and corresponding wider intake) 4.000 bore and 3.500 stroke.

Oh, good grief. It’s not bolted to the front bumper, Milo.
The weight is on par with the street hemi (426) and the BBC. Don’t see a lot of those in ditches, do ya?
There are also other benefits of running a torque monster engine. For example, the 3:1 ratio gear most of our cars came with happens to be the most efficient gearset for a 9" rear. So, instead of having to buy new gears and lose efficiency through the driveline, the bigger engine allows you to keep your highway gears and launch the car in an acceptable rate of acceleration. You CAN gear it down if you like. But, you don’t have to gear it lower.
Leaving the final drive with a more efficient and lower revving ratio like a 3.00:1 gives you the money saving option of not having to switch to an overdrive to get a decent highway cruise rpm. It puts you at about 75mph or so cruise speed. That’s pretty decent, I think.
And if you want something that revs a little quicker, thanks to the shorter stroke, just use 429 innards instead of 460.
And, the money you save not doing an O/D trans can be used for a new converter, aluminum water pump, and other things that save weight or help performance. Or you can just keep the money in your pocket.
I live in the Southern Appalachians and I understand the need to turn. But, it’s not that big of a deal to have what amounts to an iron FE in the front of the car. Ford built it that way.
Built properly, it’s not a slug. For a street car, having all that torque makes for a very nice car to cruise around in, and for a capable thursday night bracket car.
As you can see, there’s no massive weight transfer issues here hampering launches:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKpiSIAtAa0

347 loves RPM’s, 351W motors make power at a lower RPM. Big main journals restrict RPM’s (IMO)
Plus with a 347 you can tell everyone it’s still a 302. When people see a 351W they automatically think it’s a 408W

No, the weight isn’t bolted to the front bumper, but it is right at the front wheels!

Here’s my 393W-powered 4150-pound car on the line with no trick suspension (full police-spec suspension/swaybars, etc) and only a 2400 converter and 3.55s… Through a full exhaust…

That’s a 13.06 @ 106.6 with a slug-slow 1.96 60’ time! Not optimally geared since it is going through the finish at only 4500 in Drive.
I have no intention of gearing it differently since I kinda like getting 15+mpg while still knocking on the 12s with a four-door family car! Leather dual power split bench seat, cruise, tilt, power everything… It surprises quite a few people at the track!

Yeah dude. I’ve seen your CV. I think it’s wonderful and I love the irony of a family car in the 12’s.

Bear in mind that a Cougar with a 460 would be lighter. :laughing:

Oh, I know an early Cat would be significantly lighter, but my '73s are only about 220 pounds lighter than the Vic - I weighed one of my '73s at the track and came out at 3740 pounds! Vic is 3960. If I were to put a 429/460 into the Cougar, it’d be as heavy as the Vic! But, my Cats are going on a serious diet - losing the heavy bumper reinforcement and heavy isolators. That should take another 200+ pounds off the nose of the car. Then again, I can probably put the Vic on a diet, too. There is an 85 2-dr Marquis running at the track that weighs barely 3000 pounds!

When I put my 460 in I installed the 428 springs. It ended up looking like a tail dragger from the 50s & had NO give! I ended up going back to stock 351W springs. As far as steering goes - don’t punch it entering a corner, she’ll plow. As for traction: I am running Dunlop GT 205/14s and on dry pavement I can take off hard with barely a squeak, or I can sit there & smoke. It’s all in how you drive it.