I asked in another thread, what would be the value of a clone/tribute “G” and yet another thread asking a similar question. So we know now that the value of a project like a tribute car, will be probably less for what is put into it. What about a Real “G” but the body is so bad that you have to do a Re-body. Properly cutting out vin numbers and neatly re-welding them in place. What would be done is, a total restoration for lack of better words since Im using a rust free car and in the end, you have a “G” that does not have it’s original body, but all the parts and numbers are there. The question is, First how does this effect the value of the “G”? This would be a total restoration markings and colors along with all other parts.
Next question, how would it effect the price, if the color only was changed from the original.
I don’t remember seeing any talking points in regards to Re-Body cars and I know others have done it. I know there are some that frown on it as well.
I’ll give you my opinion which is worth exactly what it costs. If you’re talking about a small block car with no sunroof, I don’t think the value would be reduced all that dramatically if it was well done. If you’re talking about something like a rent a racer, then I think it would be worth significantly less than a “real” one.
The rebody question periodically comes up and it’s a very difficult one to answer. If you knowingly cut out vin numbers and move them to a different body, it screams of fraud and the car would be worth significantly less if people found out. Then again, if the only piece of a car left is the inner apron and you replace everything else on the car, you essentially have a rebody but without the “fraud” piece of cutting out numbers and welding them on a good car.
My advice would be to never cut out vin numbers and transfer them to a better body because it will probably come back to bite you in the end.
Inner fender aprons rot as well in many cases, you would still have to salvage as much of the numbers as possible and weld them in. Even if the whole body were perfect and this part was bad, Im still transferring numbers and I wouldn’t think that would devalue a car.
Let me tell you a little story about changing vin. #
A fellow here in Virginia had a suposeably rare car which changed hands three times here before being sold to someone out of state, this out of state fellow did some checking that no one else had done and found out the car was fake. He tried to get his money back from the last owner with no success. He took them to court here,and the judge made all three previous owners go together and give the man his money back, and he got to keep the car.
A Re-body is a curse… Although replacing a rear clip from the A pillars back is an acceptable practice and at a later date replacing a good portion of the front “doghouse” is acceptable. Lots of documentation and full disclosure is the only way to proceed in my opinion and in the end there are more worthy projects that one does not have to make excuses for…
Full disclosure may not be enough depending on your state’s laws and regulations. But getting legal advice from the internet is not a good idea either.
The problem I have with full disclosure is the next owner may not be so pure of heart, and then you’ve enabled someone else to pass the car off as “real.”
P.S. Since Cougarshaman reminded me of this a few weeks ago… Ship of Theseus!!
The difference in value between a rebody car and an original car is substantial. Ask your self this: if you had two GT-E’s next to each other, and one was original, and the other was a rebody, but other wise they were in the same condition, which one would you want to buy?
Realistically any G buyer is going to want to see pictures of the restoration. If all those pictures show is cutting and welding in some VIN stamps, then the buyer knows that this is a rebody and will price it accordingly. The idea that this is a “complete restoration” might be appealing to you, but buyers don’t see it that way.
A G car is basically an XR-7 with a few nice parts added to it. The difference in price is more than the value of those parts. A rebody is at best an XR7 with a bunch of G parts stuck on it. If you weld in the VIN, at best, it is just another G part.
Another VERY BIG factor in value is the dubious nature of the legality of a rebody. Most states frown on the practice, and the Feds are pretty clear that they don’t accept any kind of VIN “tampering”. Any one buying a car with this kind of black cloud over the title is also pricing in the risk.
If you want a G you need to contact Bob Tufts. Due to some medical issues he is selling an F code non sunroof G project for $8500. Here is the good part: the car is straight out of paint and body and he has had the engine rebuilt. He is well north of $15k into this car, I would guess that the paint and body would have cost at least $6K. Finish this car and you have yourself a real G.
It has to do with the overall value. The same as if you restomod a car. A restomod GT-E is going to be worth a much smaller fraction of it’s true value than a restomod J code. I’m not saying worth less, I’m saying worth a smaller percentage.
I think rather than go down this road at all you should investigate the lead Bill gave you. In the end you’ll be miles ahead and I’m guessing much happier.
Well first consider that doing so is a federal and sate crime so any rebody can often cause allot of problems for you and whom ever you sell it to. Seen plenty of them end up in court, lawsuits or impounded and destroyed over the years. Not a direction I would choose
Thanks for all the insight on the subject. I don’t have a G lined up, I only know of one, in that condition and had only thought of “what if”. All in all it is really good to know that this is really really frowned on and just to stay away from it.
Thanks again for responding.
Just for reading purposes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
“The ship of Theseus, also known as Theseus’ paradox, is a paradox that raises the question of whether an object which has had all its component parts replaced remains fundamentally the same object. The paradox is most notably recorded by Plutarch in Life of Theseus from the late 1st century. Plutarch asked whether a ship which was restored by replacing all its wooden parts, remained the same ship.”
While our community of this marque is nice and small, there are some communities out there, like certain GM vehicles, that have the re-body thing both disclosed, undisclosed, and murky. People are fond of saying that there are now more DZ302 Camaros extant than ever were made by Chevy. Likewise for some premium Corvettes and other cars.
I think it behooves the whole community to shun this practice and keep the Cougar nameplate as “clean” as possible. It may not be the kiss of death, but it’s certainly not a way to bring positive press to the party.
Back in 87 I did this legally to a 86 Bronco that was rolled. Bought it dirt cheap from a salvage auction as I was on a dealership license at the time. Bought a new body right from Ford that was still the current model year so it came painted in the correct color. Took pictures of the process and the state police inspected it when completed and issue a new assembled vin number. In MI you can do it legally, but they issue a new assembled vin number which will defeat the whole purpose of swapping the vin. I think that is basically what they are doing if you use a new Dynacor body.
So that said, In light of my project that I have now, a tribute “G”? Sounds like there would be some bad thoughts about it. One thing I never intended was to pass it off as a real “G”.
Depending on the color and options the “G” Bill has presented, I would even consider selling my rust free CA car. But I would have to probably sell off most of my new parts with it to get anywhere close to the price of the one offered.
I wouldn’t be so quick to sell off your tribute G. A nicely done tribute, while not likely to cover the cost of the build, could still be a fairly valuable car and one worth owning. It doesn’t matter if it’s real or not, as long as it isn’t presented as real, The issue with the rebody is specifically around moving the VIN from one car to the next, creating the likelihood that someone downstream will neglect to mention that part of the story.
Ultimately, a well-done restoration with G highlights added would be a unique car potentially worth the same as (or maybe even a little more than) a stock restoration but for a different buyer.
