Does anyone have one on their Cougar? I am looking to replace my starter and was wondering if anyone has one of these mini starters or gear reduction high torque ones? I have a 69 with a 351W, auto and long tube headers. If anyone has the same set up, which one did you use and how was the installation and clearance? I have been looking at Summit and was just curious what brand anyone has and how they like it?
I tried several of these type of mini starters from different sources, incl. Summit. They didn’t seem to last very long. Eventually I took all the old Ford starters I had accumulated and had an auto electrical rebuilder restore them . They all are still in service, even through they are larger and come closer to headers, etc. Auto electrical rebuilders are a dying breed. Find one in your area and bring them a box full of starters to restore. They might not be there in 5 years.
Z
I have a 351w based stroker with FPA long tube headers and a TKO-600.
The summit brand starter will not work without removing the header. It just cannot be clocked into a position that both clears the header and allows acces to the top bolt…
The powermaster 9103 fits fine. Out of the box you will have to clock it to fit correctly, but it will work. You will have to be very patient working the top bolt, but it can be done.
I’m happy with mine and I’m running fairly high compression, putting out just under 500hp and 523 ft lbs. it has not trouble cranking when hot
I have a 5 speed conversion in my 70. I have a gear reductulion one in her. It is a starter for a 5.0 mustang from the late 90’s. So far no problems. I think they w8ll work for earlier cars. But 9th need one for an automatic if running that or one for a manual shift if that 8s what you are running. Remember I said 8 think, this is based on what I was able to find when doing my 5 speed swap.
I had a Powermaster max 9103 and it lasted about a year before the heat from the headers did it in. Went a step above to the XS series with more torque and better heat resistance. So far no issues.
its been about 30 years since aftermarket mini starters first became available. during that time I’ve worked in shops that have changed hundreds, if not thousands of these starters. They are almost universally made overseas out of the cheapest materials, both housings and windings are poor quality when compared to the original Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln starters. There’s a good reason the original starters are bigger. The cases are thicker, and the wire used is top quality. Many of the aftermarket starters use wire that is not prepared correctly and will eventually break down and short out . On the other hand, it’s not unusual to find original starters still in service today, looking much the worse for wear, but still functional. Like most aftermarket parts, the mini starters are a poor substitute for a good used ford starter, or one that has been rebuilt to factory specifications.
Z
I disagree with this (it is a generalization). Yes, what zray says is true of the OEM knock-off type PMGR starters. It is not true of the Nippon Denso motor starters that Powermaster (and others I’d imagine) sell. They are easily distiguishable from the OEM type by their appearance. My main reason for going with the ND type was that is works properly as a one-wire starter. The OEM PMGR types do not (or at least the ones I tried did not).
Here is an example of the type of starter I am talking about:
The other thing that is neglected here is some engines (my 408C for instance) will not crank when hot with an original type starter, even a quality rebuild. The CR and cam specs are such that a high torque starter is required (unless a start timing retard function is available in the ignition).
After trying OEM full size stock starters, a knock-off PMGR, a ‘new-rebuilt’ Ford mini starter and countless heat shields/wraps I finally bit the bullet and spend the money on a Powermaster.
That thing will spin my 460 over cold or hot. I am half afraid if the motor binds the car will spin around the starter!
http://www.jegs.com/i/Powermaster/713/9405/10002/-1?gclid=CJ2X8qfP6tECFYy2wAoduXsCAg
we can certainly agree to disagree. I’m speaking specifically of the high torque mini starters, not the full size knock-offs (those have their own set of shortcomings). My posts are only meant to be taken as an attempt to relay what I have experienced during 5 decades of working on these cars, both professionally and as a private enthusiast. You can accept or reject any or all of it, and not hurt my feelings in the slightest.
I’m speaking from the viewpoint of observations on the retail scale, over a period of 3 decades that the mini starters have been around, and NOT from the viewpoint of an individual who buys a starters for their classic, and it sees maybe 100-200 starts a season, probably less than 1,000 starts over a ten year period. My customers were driving classics that were also daily drivers. Their starters are in use 10 times as much as the typical classic. It’s in this full time usage where the cheap materials will show their true colors. After warranting several mini starters for one car, one is left with the unavoidable conclusion that they are cr*p. After we would see this same scenario played out on many different cars, we no longer will waste out time installing the mini starters. The come-backs are murder for a small specialty shop. We did however still sell plenty of rebuilt Ford starters to replace the failed mini starters, including the PowerMaster line of starters, on cars that got towed in.
Z
I installed a McLeod high torque mini starter on my 351 with long tube headers. The stock Ford units were barely enough to spin it over. I killed two stock units in two years. But after installing the McLeod in 1995, I’ve never had a problem. Fits and installs easily.
I started the car to leave a show once and a guy yelled to me, “Hey that don’t sound like a Ford starter!!!” and I relied, “It shouldn’t. It’s a $200 starter.”
Yep, a little pricey, but when you compare that against how many stock starters I would have bought since 1995, the answer is obvious.
I put a Tilton high torque starter in my 69 with a 428 around 2002 or 2003. I have had no problem since then.
Steve
Ford Australia has used Bosch Hi-torque “mini-style” starters since the 1970’s. They use them on Clevelands, Windors, IL6’s and modulars. They are similar to gear reduction starter, without the gearbox.
All my Cougars use so called hi-torque mini starters without problems. I have a gear reduction starter on the 428, although the 1 1/4hp starter struggles a bit when the 428 is hot
Are any of you mini starter guys driving your cars as your daily driver ?
Z
I don’t use my Cougar as a daily. But I also have a gear reduction mini starter in one of my Dailies. The previous owner installed it due to the long tube headers in that as well. Even so, it’s a chore to R&R.
I don’t know the brand. But it works flawlessly which is surprising given everything else that I had to re-engineer on this project. I’ve been driving this car daily since about May.
My 2006 Ranger 4.0 uses one factory. Not the same one as needed for a early V8. I did have to replace it at about 135K. But no headers to cook it.
But it looks close to the same as the one I used in my Cougar.
Had one in my 76 Ranchero for years. Held up well, just wasn’t strong enough for the 460 in my Cougar.
Thousands of Australian Falcons use them on a daily basis, in both V8s and IL6’s. I have the same starter in my daily Falcon ute that I use in the 68, 69 and Eliminator
modern cars don’t count. I’m wanting to hear from people that use their classic as a daily (everyday) driver. I’m not sure there’s anyone here that fits that description.
Z
Mine is not a daily driver.
Steve
Although I don’t usemy Cougar as a daily, the car I mentioned above is considered a classic.
So that begs you to provide your definition of what a classic is.