Not sure if I ever formally introduced myself anywhere in the forum. My name is David, and I have a 67 "S"code with factory air, 4-speed in Lime frost with Ivy interior. Working on re-assembly and have a couple of quick questions. I bought the repo hockey stick trims and have them all mounted up to the new weather strips. When those get installed on the car does any type of sealant get put under them specifically at the rear where they curve up? Seems like if there were not something in that corner all water would run off the car and follow the drip rail down and run right into the window cavity.
Second question, my car has been apart for a number of years. Is there any good info out there on how to re-install window glass. Been looking for something good on putting in the quarter windows, and just ain’t finding anything. I didn’t take any photos or make any notes on it. Just thought the shop manual would be able to tell me all I need. There is a “fair” exploded view, but don’t seem like real clear cut how to get all those pieces back in there.
Third, thinking of tackling my own headliner. Watch several videos on it and have some good instructions printed out. I had put my windshield in, but I think I will take it back out as it looks like it makes for a easier and cleaner install. What about any of the door jam trim. Better to have that out also. I have one side in, but not the other yet. I want to make sure I put my opera light housings in first. Is there only suppose to be one wire in the harness for those even though the plug on the light has two spades?
I’m sure I won’t be done with questions, but all I have for now.
Thanks!
David 
I have not found any sealant in that area. You could probably add some if you wanted.
I used the shop manual to determine the adjustment sequence but had to figure out the installation part myself. I used lots of tape to keep the scratches to a minimum.
Do the headliner before glass or window trim. and I don’t recall the wiring for the opera lights at all…
So I did put some sealant down. I put a small bead of black silicone down. My biggest concern was behind the curve towards the back of the car. These reproduction J-trims don’t have the extra casting piece on the back side that fills that gap. If you look at an original one and the repro ones you will see. So there ends up being almost a 1/4in gap back in that curve. I had some thick open cell self adhesive one side foam here. So I cut a narrow 1/2in piece by a couple inches long and stuck it in there. I then had to “sculpt” it with a sharp hobby knife so it had a curve shape to it (thicker in the radius, and thins out on the ends) took a couple go’s at it, but wanted to get it just right so when the trim is installed it is compressing that foam just a little. So at least it is air tight. Still blows my mind that the assembly manual shows no sealant there, and no obvious signs from the factory. If driving in the rain, or washing the car any water that runs down the drip rail can run right in there and in the window “bay”. Its only out is through the drain holes in the base of the window bay that lead down into the rocker. Stupid place to let water channel into IMO. Thankfully for me I don’t plan on driving in the rain, unless it just happens, and I will take care when washing my car in the future.
I got the windows figured out. Wasn’t that bad, although I still have to adjust their fit after I get the headliner in, and then put the new weather strip in.
I have the headliner in place and stretching now. Wrinkles from folding are coming out hard. I will keep pulling on it for a week or so before I use a light or hairdryer to make the vinyl more pliable. Thought about putting a small electric heater in the car, but that don’t do much good with no windshield or backglass
I think your extra efforts are smart. We often see even on West Coast cars bubbles in the 1/4’s right in front of the rear wheels where they rust from the inside out. As for the repro 1/4 trims keep in mind there were at least two versions and we chose to reproduce the more commonly found, better fitting version.
Don,
Thanks for the post. Not enough pictures of yours to tell if they are any different than the ones I have. I know my original ones have just a little bit of a wedge shape extra piece of casting that fills in right in the curve of the window opening. It closes up almost a 1/4in gap. These repro ones don’t have that little bit of extra casting.
You mentioning there being two versions of one product brings up another topic. Recently I installed my second repro quarter panel emblem on my car. Took a lot of extra caution laying out the holes because I broke a pin off the first one I did even though I took a lot of care laying out that one. This second one I did I ended up breaking two pins off. I don’t know how else I could have done it. I measured, and did the suggested tips and tricks you guys mention on your site for locating the other holes. I actually used the pins to locate the holes for me. Anyway I thought I got these from WCC, but I think I actually got them from MU. On your site you mention yours having 2 extra pins for a total of 6. These only had 4. Are there better quality pieces being made by the same manufacturer for different vendors? These came from Scott Drake. Their name is all over them. Yours come from Scott Drake also correct?
David
Yes, Scott and I developed those emblems together 10 years ago, there is only one maker. Same with the quarter window mouldings, our own Bill Basore and I teamed up several years ago to make those and we sell them to MU and others.
Don,
Thanks. So with Scott being the only maker, and MU gets theirs from you, and they are suppose to have 6 pins, then why did the ones I get only have 4 pins (if you know)? Are the pins really that fragile? Any suggestions as to what I should do now with them missing pins? I know you can use the 3M two sided tape (or at least I heard it mentioned). Little irritated I guess with the whole thing. Tried very hard on the first one to get everything right. Tried even extra harder on the second one to get everything right being that I broke a pin on the first one. If I would have snapped one pin maybe wouldn’t have bothered me as much But snapping two pins both on the same end, and these only have 4 pins to begin with not the 6 like is claimed. Think I paid 200.00 for the pair.
Personally I have not been impressed with Scott Drake stuff. I have some exterior repro door handles that the chrome is all “crackled” on already, and the car hasn’t even been driven yet. I have a repro 4speed top console plate that has scratch marks all over the inside square opening. Got that from you guys. I even sent the first one back, and got sent a different one and it was the same. SD apparently opened up other boxes of them and the whole batch looked the same. Now these quarter emblems seem fragile to me, and mine only have 4 pins not the 6 like is being stated.
Sorry not venting or trying to run anyone down on a public forum. Just trying to say I don’t get it.
If you have any suggestions on what to do with the quarter emblems let me know.
David
I would return them. My guess is someone bought them and returned them after they broke off 2 studs and if you look close you will see where the studs used to be. Drake makes some really good parts but also some really poor parts. I called them out on one of their crap parts in a video and ended up being put on speaker phone in one of their product planning meetings. Good thing Scott has a sense of humor… He now says the new 67-8 mirror gasket will be available any day now. Here is the link to the emblems clearly showing 6 studs, we always get a 5 star review on them. http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/67w-6528818-1.html
Here is the video where I show their pathetic mirror gasket. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7ae4_n4dEA
David, the Cougar, like most new cars in the 60’s had a few design problems. They would attempt to solve these problems with running changes to parts and even body construction. The problem you have found was fixed by the end of '67 production, so this only applies to early to mid production '67 Cougars. I developed the parts so I have some detail that I think you might find interesting. When I develop a part the first one goes on one of my cars, so it is important to get it right. One thing I try to avoid doing is duplicating a defect that was in the original part.
If you look at the casting number on the back of the passenger side trim piece you will see that it ends in a letter. The ones you have will most likely end with the letter B. That letter indicates the level of engineering change in the part. The B version has an additional raised area on the bottom at the inside of the curve at the back.
B version on the left, reproduction on the right, (this is a casting sample that photographs easier than chrome).
There were two issues with the original quarter window design. First is the one you have noted, the drip rail ends and dumps water into the inner interior rear quarter area. The original quarter window trim had a molded in channel to carry the water right in. Water went under the trim and then dumped inside the quarter. I know it sounds crazy. If you look closely you can see they even created a drop off on the inside to assist. It was designed that way. The bottom of the interior quarter has drain holes to let the water out. Hence no sealer in the assembly manual. This turned out to be a bad idea so they extended the drip rail all the way around the bottom radius of the window, keeping most of the water out. But wait there’s more.
When there is problem with a part on the assembly line they will make a change to fix the part causing the issue. Each change bears a new ending letter. The final approved part had the letter D at the end of the part number. The D version eliminated the raised section that you are talking about. The reason for this is that unless the drip rail fits perfectly inside the recess on the B series part, it ends up holding the trim away from the body, pushing it too far forward. This is a very big problem with vinyl roof cars. The reproduction is based on the final version D part.
It doesn’t make sense to copy defects into reproduction parts so the B version is not reproduced, and if it were, it would not fit well on most cars. There were many changes to how this area was finished on the assembly line. Some cars have the rivet, some do not. It is very clear that this was a problem area for manufacturing. Ultimately they extended the drip rail all the way around the radius at the bottom corner of the window. This picture shows an early '68 with the full drip rail (white part at bottom of the channel with scratch marks).
Now getting to your issue. Be certain that the stainless piece that runs down the back side of the window opening sits on top of the quarter widow trim. If you put it under the trim it forces the trim too far forward increasing the size of the gap that water can go through. If you want to try to seal water out of the interior quarter it won’t hurt, but be certain that the drains at the bottom are open.
It is also worth knowing that the seals at the window side do not meet well in the bottom corner and there is usually a hole that water does go through. The focus was to keep water out of the interior but the inner quarters and doors were not water tight.
Thanks that explains a lot on the hockey stick trims. I have noticed too like you said it don’t appear the weather strip is going to fit tight either. I will look at those casting numbers when I get a chance, but I’m sure your right on with what your saying. I guess I am on the right track with trying to make the parts fit the best I can.
Don,
Return the quarter emblems to who? I saved my package, and it has a WCC part number sticker on it. I did pull them off and look at them. Your right on, you can see where those other two pins were, and broke off. Funny cuz the package didn’t look like it was opened at all, and there were only 8 barrel clips in there, but there clearly were the extra pins now that I look at them.
Be certain that the stainless is on top of the trim. I speak from experience, LOL! You can’t really keep the water out on a '67 so be sure the drains are not filled up with pine needles and road grime.
Nice write-up and pictures of the different versions and issues in that quarter window area Bill, that was super informative.
Feel free to harvest any part of that that you would like to use. I wish I had a better picture of the '68 drip rail.
Bill, (or whoever)
You obviously have some experience Thanks for all your help on the hockey stick trims. I did check my old parts and they do have the ‘B’ in casting number. So again I am on the right track I feel. Like you said your not going to keep the water out of a 67. But I am doing the best I can by sculpting that piece of foam to at least close the air gap.
Do you have an suggestions for me on the quarter emblems? It was just real frustrating taking all the time I did to still have the pins break off. I even went so far after drilling my holes to test fit the pieces before I used the barrel clips. They fit good. Pins slipped easily into and out of the holes. So put the barrel clips in, pushed the emblems on nice and easy and evenly keeping them square to the body panel and, well I got what I got. Wish I wouldn’t have even used the barrel clips. Probably could have got a little square or rectangular push on retainer and just pushed them onto the pins from the inside of the trunk.
Thanks,
David
The quarter emblems are a Scott Drake part so I can’t speak to the development story on those, but I have purchased them and used them myself. I even got a set that had the plastic insert broken in half while they were still in the package shrink wrap and all. Those pins are small and they allow for pretty much zero tolerance. It sounds like you did everything right. There is one thing that I do with all of the barrel clip logos and that is to use some white lithium assembly lube (grease) in the holes to block moisture from rusting the barrels.
Now as to the parts you got, I am going to venture a guess, and it is purely a guess. I think the pins on your parts were bent at some point in time, and then straightened out after somebody tried to fix what they had done. The material doesn’t allow for that, it is cast and once bent, it becomes brittle and super easy to break. Anyway, if you bought it from WCCC, send it back, even if you didn’t buy it there, I bet that Don will make good on it for you so long as he can make Scott Drake take it back. Which is a good possibility given how much business he does with them, they certainly should.