i have 3 intake manifolds, which should i use

Cougar Community Classic Cougar Maintenance Restoration and Repair
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Long time owner(only since 2001 but broke down in 2003), new member, sat for about 8 years and been alive for 1½ with a few issues after rebuild.

This morning I am going to pick up my water pumpand install it. What does that have to do with an intake manifold? I have been having heating issues, water pump this morning, if not that then I will flush radiator, next I will try timing but it seems to be running fine just sluggish. Possibly something to do with the Carb but I’m working on it reading how to videos and articles, I just had transmission rebuilt for first time so not sure what it’s supposed to actually feel like. My idle jumps but that’s possibly a vacuum issue I have to trace. Now for the question, somewhat lol… when the mechanic rebuilt my engine he put back my fomoco manifold but gave me two extra old ones. I figured more air will help me cool, I want power but still be able to afford to drive it around.
So one is the WEIAND 8011 which seems like a direct replacement, better than stock they say.
I also have edelbrock 289 torker with a little high rise single plane but it doesn’t seem to have a port for my vacuum hoses.
In result I am thinking of going with the weiand, any suggestions on that.

Now the reason I bring up the water pump is because I don’t want to do it twice. Do I have to take off the water pump in order to install the manifold, I bought a torque wrench at HARBOR FREIGHT just for this. If I have two do it twice I might as well change the manifold now right. If I don’t have to remove water pump I will good off on manifold until I read more. Tdc and removing distributor concern me for I don’t know if mechanics marking are correct and we kind of left on bad terms, also if I mess up the timing I don’t have a gun to fix it, plus I don’t know how. I would have to drive it to somebody’s friends house lol. Sorry for the long read but hopefully you have a full understanding of what I’m asking, thank you in advanced for you are all so helpful, once you wake up that is. I am picking up water pump at 1030am Tijuana time lmao, Pacific time, thank you

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Ok seeing how I don’t know you, but it take it you have limited mechanical skills? Which isn’t bad especially if you’re not afraid to ask question, even simple ones. First, I think you’re trying to do too much at once here. You need to fix the overheat problem first and the vacuum leak (if you have one). If the water pump isn’t leaking then that isn’t causing the over temp problem. If it is leaking then change it. I would first look at the thermostat as the cause. Then flush the radiator and go from there.

You can change the manifold without removing the water pump. But, you still have to drain the coolant out of the engine. I think the Wieland being a dual plane will be a better choice. There are steps you need to take to get the distributor back in the correct location as well. You have a four barrel carb correct?

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Yes 4 barrel Carb, manifold will go on eventually. Just wondering if I should kill 2 birds with one stone. I am no mechanic by any means but as long as it’s my timing, internal components of the engine or of the transmission I’m willing to try. Not without a lot of research of course. The dumb questions atrying the ones people are afraidto ask but wish they would have. Thermostat is not the problem for I took it out, flow is their its just not great. Seeing how my thermostat had some stuff around it I am going to replace water pump as it’s just time and not to much money. As somebody told me, just because it’s somewhat new doesn’t mean it’s not at fault. At this point after doing some other stuff I have decided I will do pump, if not fixed radiator and then check timing. I have the books, good with directions and I have been doing minor upgrades and bolt ons to my cars my whole life but lost some confidence after messing up my heads on a newer car(timing). If I could do it myself I would like to. I will hold of on manifold, I have read up on it quite a bit, just concerned about timing and advance for example. Sure I could put it back just the way I got it by marking it, usually ask questions for a second opinion even though I may have been right in the first place, just being cautious. Thank you for your help, going to get my pump now, honestly I think it is the issue, not leaking but it was painted so not trusting that, it is however starting to look a little wobbly, and I’m not sure seeing how I won’t get that close to my motor with my ear with my fan on but I think it’s squeeK’s. Sorry so long , I feel the need to explain myself lol. I was always more of an audio guy but have always been around cars. I have read up on manifolds but just asking opinions. Most people say dual plane for normal driving and single for racing, makes sense but not totally true. A truck would probably go with single plane for it would have more lower end torque rather than Work at high rpm.

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For the most part they say put it at top dead center, mark the distributor. Disassemble, clean gaskets, pick up anything that fell on motor with shop vac and assemble using torque wrench, what did I miss

One other thing I just read. Mechanic had mentioned idol should be about 7500, I just read with auto transmission it should be 5500. Seems a bit low but could that be my issue, idol to high.

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Just my two cents, but two tools no home mechanic should be without are a timing light and a vacuum gauge. They aren’t that expensive. (I’d buy them before spending the money on a possibly unnecessary water pump, personally.) They’re not difficult to learn to use. (Google & Youtube are your friends here.)
Until you know where your timing is set, and you know that you have a strong, steady vacuum signal, you’re just going to be chasing your tail dealing with issues.
As for overheating, what sort of fan is on the car? Stock radiator shroud in place? Running a good 50/50 water/antifreeze mix? Does the lower hose have a spring in it to keep it from collapsing? A lean air fuel mixture (could be caused by carb issues or a vacuum leak) or mis-adjusted timing can contribute to overheating as well.
Idle in neutral at 750 and in gear at 550 sound about right with a stock cam.

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Well glad you got my misprint on the 8500rpm, I don’t even hit that driving lol. Well water pump was in expensive and someone just drove my car without asking and it over heated. They said it got to the red but didnt turn off, really? Hope it wasnt catastrophic but with my luck I’m dreading the worst, they should know better dmmmit. I’m gonna try to check a few things you said tomorrow but if it’s messed up now idk what I’m gonna do because I need a car now. Doesn’t sound the same, hopefully it’s just hot and sounds better when it cools down, worst case scenario, what went wrong after over heating? If it’s a head gasket then I will replacement it, the heads are only 1 year old, could they have got messed up, or did it get my engine like a crank or something. I’m so upset I can’t sleep, what should I check first for damage and how.

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Let it cool off (and you to) check oil and water then start the engine and listen for knocks or other noise, hope for best. Has this heating problem been going on since heads replaced, if so, the head gaskets may have been installed backwards, that will definitely cause over heating. Most gaskets have front marked on them.

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Unfortunately I had motor rebuilt a year ago but me mechanic and I left on bad terms and not going back. Now, he is a professional and knows what he’s doing but I have suspected gasket being backwards, unless he did it on purpose I don’t understand it. Yes it has been having this issue since I got it. He had just purchased radiator ( he said), I have changed thermostat 2 times, wafer pump yesterday, temp sending unit is new and I flushed e everything best I personally could. Yet it over heated after changing pump, not upset I spent the money for now I’m positive that’s not the issue. I will go start it up later. I went to sleep and woke up thinking of this. I’m hoping for the best and thanks for the response.

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Update is I started it, sound better, not great. Idle is jumping around, strange thing is I step on the break and it gets steady, let go and it jumps around. Put my hand to tail pipe and got water with black stuff in it, is it oil. Did I blow my head gasket. White was coming out but seems to go away once it warmed up, I see little sprinkles coming out of tailpipe still. Give it to me straight, what did they do to my car, I borrowed there’s and that’s why they drove mine. I had not tested it after installing water pump but had to leave, this is what I came back to :frowning:

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Well little Update for anyone reading. Looking around and I notice radiator is only a 2 row. Why would a mechanic sponsored for racing rebuild my engine and buy a new 2 row radiator. I took it out, put the 3 row I bad in there before he rebuilt it and in the morning I will take it for a drive. Power seems to be there again, although idle seems a little worse until I put it in drive, then it normalizes. Ticking sound from the engine but not that bad, however it wasn’t there before. I have only done a valve adjustment once because I was on the side of the freeway, did it with the car on until they stopped clicking plus one turn. It worked but is that the right way to do it. Haven’t done a valve adjustment since I got it rebuilt, mechanic told me to take it in for an adjustment but then we got on eachothers bad sides and I never went. Probably due to over heating but it might help right? I can’t afford to take it anywhere for I’m looking for a job but need my car to get around. Yes I’m probably trying to do some stuff past my knowledge but I won’t do it without great advise, a lot of reading and research and if I get really stuck I can muster up the courage to ask my neighbor for help. He’s a mechanic for new cars but I don’t know him much. I have helped with a lot, I’m good with directions and I won’t give up. Let you know how it is after my drive. Also, this radiator is a little shorter and a tiny bit taller but it was working before so it should now if that’s the issue. Tabs are showing on head gasket in notch of lower front corner for both, don’t know if they say anything because their painted. WOW that felt really long, Sorry guys, your all great for the advise you have already given. P.s I know there is a vacuum leak because everything I turn on my lights there’s a hiss coming from light switch I believe, just have to find it but I don’t want to go under there until heating issue is fixed, it’s always been there so no reason it should cause overheating now…right?

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Any time the engine gets that hot, oil breaks down and thins out and bad things happen, that may be a lifter out of adjustment, or damaged by lack of oil, time will tell. If you think you might have a blown head gasket, you can borrow a leak-down kit from one of your parts houses and check it out, it’s not hard to do. You will probably have to leave a returnable deposit to borrow the kit. Good luck

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A leak down kit, I will check it out and read up on it. If it is leaking it’s not excessive but a leak is a leak. Hopefully the engine bared it, it’s fairly new so hopefully it’s OK. I’m gonna go for a drive around the block a few times and see if radiator was heating issue atleast. Thanks for suggestion, if I don’t try it then it will just sit so might as well

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The new radiator is shorter and taller? Have any pictures?

The fact that the idle changes when you step on the brake is one indication of a vacuum leak. Just because there is a longstanding leak in the headlight system doesn’t mean its the only one. I’d carefully check the carb base (and carb spacer, if you have one) and any vacuum hose connections on the rear of the intake manifold, to start with.

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I figured it’s from a vacuum leak but with a good Carb adjustment things seem a little better. I doing t this radiator is for a cougar but it is providing better flow, although after a while the temp did start to creep up. Surprised me because I though radiator had fixed it, it was just a trial run and filled up with water only and no t-stat. Tomorrow I will reinstall t-stat and put some antifreeze in there. Actually sounded pretty good but as temp started to creep up ticking got a bit louder, Hope it’s a tick and not a clunk. Should I try the valve adjustment or would I be wasting my time. No liquid leaks from Carb or spacer, as for vacuum, I heard I could spray something on the seams and see if it reacts, is that right

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Radiator: Some modern two row radiators, due to their materials and design, have higher cooler capacity than older three row units. No way to know which is better without a comparison of the actual units in question. But if the new one is helping, it was probably a worthwhile switch.
Valve adjustment: Is your engine equipped with an adjustable valvetrain? Few Cougars came with one, but it could have been added in the rebuild. If it is adjustable, and no other cause is readily apparent, then yes, it would be a good idea to verify that valve lash is within specs. Be aware that an exhaust leak can sometimes mimic tappet noise. An automotive stethoscope will help you pinpoint the source of the ticking sound.
Vacuum issues: Its quite possible to have a vacuum leak at the carb base w/o any signs of leaking gas. You can spray some starting fluid or carb cleaner around the carb base and junction of the heads and manifold to check for leaks. Be very careful, they’re both very flammable. Be sure to immediately clean up any that gets on painted surfaces. Also be sure to check the hose and connections from the manifold to power brake booster (if so equipped.) I still recommend acquiring a vacuum gauge sooner rather than later, if at all possible. http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/performance-modification-tune-up-preventive-maintenance/188768-vacuum-gauge-reading-interpreting-most-important-diagnostic-tool

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Not sure where the noise is coming from but as car gets to operating temp it gets a little louder. I pulled the breather from valve cover and listened close, sounds good. Pulled hose from other side on valve cover and it was noticeable that it was louder. No doubt there’s a few exhaust leaks but when I bend down and listen under the car I hear the ticking louder, I’m skeptical if that’s the exhaust or if I’m actually hearing the bottom end of my motor. Think I will have to have someone check it out, they could do that by pulling the oil pan right? As for the valve train, well it has roller rocker’s and car has a mild cam. So if I can’t adjust it maybe I can just tighten them down a bit, the ones that are louder that is. Would it be OK to pull the valve cover and run the car to see which ones are clicking and only tighten those? If it’s OK I will try that in the morning. As for the heating, it stays cool a lot longer but I’m not driving it far enough to really test it, seems like it’s starting to creep up although flow is much better, whenits been at operating temp for sometime and it starts to get louder is when it starts to creep hotter, also for the first time when it starts to get hot I hear a whining sound. What’s that about, sorry for so much writing but I am no mechanic, I am a do it yourself kind of person, plus I don’t have anymore money to take it to a shop. It sits and waits for me to get money or I spend some money on parts but not labor, thank you for your help

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The original manifold is so heavy, I have to bend at the knees and pick it up with both hands. The one I put on is light enough to just walk around with it in your hand, crazy. There was so much silicone it looked like the openings were halfway closed, hopefully that was my heating issue. We will see in the morning, I did this because the new one is better than stock. It was not necessarily to fix the heating issue but figured a little more air wouldn’t hurt, seem to have stumbled on what’s causing water restriction. Nobody ever mentioned this and said it’s not going to fix anything, time will tell.

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James, There is no way people could possibly how much gook some people use to seal a manifold, what you have done is trial and error, which we all learn from, the only thing you asked for was our opinion. Hope this fixes the problem, keep us informed.

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I wasn’t complaining about you guys, you have been more than helpful. I was just thinking, weird that nothing like that has been posted as a suggestion on this or any other forum when doing a Google search for possible causes. Who knows if it’s even the issue it was just a bit of an update. If not for changing the manifold I would of kept on this way. I believe the gaskets he had out on their when rebuilding my engine were for a 351 from what I have seen in videos Nd so fourth. This site is great, I will update at a later time, hopefully the issue is fixed.

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James, welcome to the previous- owner-was-an-idiot club.

I bought an original owner GT-E that had been “restored” by his ex son-in-law. The car was never right after the “restoration” They could drive it for about 8 miles before it would stall, and then not restart, until it had cooled off completely. It never overheated, and it already had “the biggest radiator that you could stuff in there” in place. So they started trying to “fix” it.

They decided the problem was vapor lock. First they removed the stock fan, fan clutch, and the shroud, and replaced it all with a flex fan. No change. Then they took the stock Holley off and put an Edelbrock on. No change. So they disconnected the stock fuel pump and put on an electric pump. No change. So they cut out the factory hood scoop and made a big hole in the hood. No change. So they replaced the stock distributor with a Mallory unilite with no vacuum advance. No change. In fact the car was becoming even less drivable. If the battery was not fully charged, or if you turned on the headlights it would stall. So basically they resigned themselves to believing it was just the crappy gas they sell you these days. The car was almost never driven except to occasional shows within walking distance.

In the process they did thousands of dollars damage to the car throwing away parts that could never be replaced. Ultimately the son-in law became the ex-son-in-law, and the owner grew old and was losing his sight. The car sat in the garage for a few years before the decision to sell was finally made.

When I got the car I drained the old gas and noticed that the original steel gas line was disconnected and running next to it was a rubber hose. They had tied the rubber hose to the original gas line about every 10" with a zip tie pulled down very tight. The rubber hose bulged on either side of the zip ties. The flow thru the hose was reduced dramatically to just a trickle. Not enough gas to keep a 427 going. I replaced the gas line with a reproduction steel line and now the car would run as long as the battery was fully charged.

The electric fuel pump had been installed on the passenger side inner fender, which required a very long rubber hose extension to reach. This probably was because the Edelbrock fuel inlet is located on the passenger side at the rear of the carb, where the stock Holley was on the drivers side front. The fuel pump was wired with a single strand of 24 gauge wire that ran from the back side of the ignition switch, through the firewall, up the driver side inner fender, across the front of the core support, then back down the passenger inner fender to the pump. It had multiple butt connector splices in it where they had cut and spliced the wire while fishing it through all the sheet metal.

A long thin wire, with a bunch of bad connections in it, acts like a resistor. That means that it drops the voltage in the circuit. A fuel pump is a basically a type of an electric motor, and the speed of a DC motor is controlled by voltage. Low voltage means that the fuel pump moves very little gas. And to top it off, when the wire got hot, and it did because it was too small to handle the current passing through it, the resistance increased even more, dropping the output even more, eventually dropping it so much the pump wouldn’t even run.

The electric pump got tossed and a new replacement mechanical pump took its place. Since the Edelbrock really isn’t a good fit for a Ford, it was replaced with a proper Holley, and all original style fuel lines were used.

The Mallory distributor worked all right, but with out vacuum advance, it made the car run hot at cruise, and use a lot of gas. Since I live in a very hot place, the Mallory went on the shelf and an original Ford distributor with a new Pertronix ignition module went into place.

Fortunately the original shroud was being reproduced, the fan clutch is available as a service part from Hayden and I was able to locate an original fan blade.

At this point everything I had done was simply undoing the stupid stuff that the previous owner had done. The car would now run and drive any where, even in temperatures up to about 105 degrees at which point the car is okay, but I over heat.