I saw this Cougar on eBay and the Vin stood out to me. It’s a nice looking Cougar so I copied the message I sent to the seller, read below.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252152675320?forcerRptr=true&item=252152675320&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:X:AAQ:MOTORS:1123 I sent this seller this message:
I was looking at your auction and your paperwork and title show the VIN # for a 1968 XR7 390 X code Cougar. The Vin on the inner fender apron shows what appears to be a VIN # 8F91C------- which is for a 1968 Standard Cougar 302 2V C code car. The inner fender VIN number is for Title purposes not the door data plate. Can you please verify or explain the apparent differences in your pictures? Thanks.
This is the reply I received:
somebody / or you mention this at the end the last time - I just looked at it and it’s unreadable - but does start out different then the tag on the door, and the tag on the passenger windshield. I don’t have an answer - today I am going to try and see if I can get a # for the Oregon owner - it’s possible it was in an accident early in it’s life and that might explain the repaint - I really don’t know - I can just tell you it’s an xr7 with the vin I have listed - all the paper work matches, and the whole car matches except that #. here when they do a vin check it’s the windshield one - in this case it’s the passenger side - if I can find out some more info I will let you know - something for me to do while at work today. thanks ed
His auction now reads that West Coast Cougar painted the car, I am guessing that he means WCCC. Is it a standard or XR7? The inner fender apron vin shows 8F91C? The pricing is at $13,600 right now and while it a really nice looking car the inner fender apron vin vs. the title vin concerns me for the potential buyers.
Buyer beware on this one. This car may have been in a serious accident at one time where the front clip was replaced or the door tag was transferred to this car to make it something that it isn’t. I purchased a cat a few years ago with the same issue and found that the entire front clip had been replaced. This is a sticky mess for sure.
He doesn’t really have a title problem so I wouldn’t have expected him to mention one. The dash number and the paperwork match. No state that I’m aware looks at the fender apron. So this is more of a vehicle history problem than anything else to make sure a buyer doesn’t have any difficulty with the integrity of the car itself. Whatever the reason, I agree it’s a buyer beware situation until the discrepancy is explained.
I agree Bill about the fender apron Vin as 1967’s didn’t have the right side window Vin # as the 1968’s have. I guess that was more of my thought process. It is very possible that the Cougar was in a wreck and the left side inner fender apron was replaced using donor parts. I’m sure that was common practice back in the day and it’s still done today in many cases. What is difficult for me to understand as I don’t sell on eBay, why was my question never posted on the ask the seller area of the seller listing. Other questions are shown as well as the answers to the questions. Is it the sellers right to answer or post the questions that they want bidders to see? If this question came up in is last sale and now this sale maybe on his next listing it will be explained better.
Again I think it’s a nice looking Cougar I just think the seller should be a little more straight forward with the listing as far as the questions and information is listed.
The seller has the option to show a question and answer within the listing. Being as charitable as possible, I’ll leave open the possibility that he is trying to figure out what the answer is and will add that information once he has it. Of course, since the question was raised previously it would have been appropriate to address it in the second listing. It could be he doesn’t think it’s important and doesn’t want to cast unnecessary doubt on a car he’s trying to sell, but that’s getting a bit toward the shady side.
In Arizona, at least in Maricopa county, they use a book that tells them where to find the VIN number for registration. For some reason the book says for '67 and '68 to look at the inner fender. When I have shown them the dash VIN tag they tell me it is on the wrong side for '68. I have had to show them the fender VIN every time I have registered a Cougar here. Being on the border with Mexico with a large number of stolen vehicles moving through the state, they are more careful than most states.
It isn’t just Cougars that they have wrong. I bought a '65 Econoline Super Van ('65 was the first year for the extended body Super Van) that has always been registered here in AZ but the old title had lapsed due to the vehicle not being tagged for many years. The book indicated that the stamp should be on a brace by the right rear tail light. That brace is not used on the Super Van. The Super Van is stamped right behind the engine dog house over the transmission hump. It took over a year for me to appeal the DMV refusal to issue title. They finally got a ruling that the clearly stamped VIN that matched the title was legit because it was located where the '66 van was located.
I am not suggesting that anyone not buy this car, but it would be a good idea to check with the local DMV and see what they will accpet. I have heard that Texas will go with the dash tag no issues, and I never had an issue with Oklahoma when I lived there. Better to be safe than sorry.
“I am not suggesting that anyone not buy this car, but it would be a good idea to check with the local DMV and see what they will accpet. I have heard that Texas will go with the dash tag no issues, and I never had an issue with Oklahoma when I lived there. Better to be safe than sorry.”
I’ll 2nd those thoughts. When I registered my 73 in Fl they checked the dash, door tag, and engine compartment. I wasn’t worried as I had already checked those before I bought it but they knew exactly where to look. I didn’t volunteer anything and the lady who inspected my vert was younger than the cat
This is just a gee whiz, look at how process within AZ varies. I don’t want to hijack the thread, but find this very interesting, for two reasons.
When I brought my Cougar out of storage earlier this year, it hadn’t been registered in AZ since '96/7. I called DMV to find out about the process and they couldn’t even access the title record in their system. They said they’d check their “archive” and that I should call back the next day. I did and - remarkably for any governmental entity - the old title had been reactivated in their current system. No problems renewing the registration thereafter. I did have to sign a waiver application stating that the vehicle hadn’t been driven in AZ since the prior registration expired and they waived all late registration fees for the gap years and this year. My “renewed” registration cost me $20.24 (in July) and expires in March, 2016, just as it would if I’d kept it current all along. (There was no pro-rating, so my “penalty” is that I didn’t use the car between March and July of this year.)
My car doesn’t have the VIN stamp on the fender and Pima County, AZ doesn’t seem to care. (They didn’t even perform a physical inspection of the car when I renewed the registration this year!)
I’ve seen this VIN location mentioned elsewhere on the forums and have always wondered why mine isn’t there.
It’s probably there, just hidden under the fender. I don’t know why this is, but when I recently reinstalled my fenders, my VIN stamping also got covered up. I don’t know if maybe the stampings were done by hand prior to the fenders being installed at the factory and sometimes they put them too far outboard, or what. But if I pulled my fender out far enough to see the VIN, there would be a massive uneven hood gap. shrug
On a '67 it is visible on a '68 it is usually covered. You can see it in reverse from the underside of the fender.
My experience in AZ is bringing in a car from out of state with an out of state title. Transferring a title instate doesn’t require inspection. You are lucky they found the title in the archive. On my van I had the AZ paper title but they didn’t have any record at all of ever existing.
