Today on Fathers day I took my car on it’s longest ride so far. A whopping 14 miles or so that didn’t go so well I just took it into the nearby gas station to put some premium fuel in it. I had to get out on the 4-lane to get there, and never did take it above 60. I noticed the faster I got going the hotter it got and wanted to stay there. Almost to that last little section on the gauge. Made it to the gas station ok. Put gas in and checked under the hood cuz I know I have some seepage by the thermostat housing. No squirting out, but grabbed a hold of the fan clutch expecting to feel more resistance then when I’ve spun it cold. Notta, spins the same. Shouldn’t it be locking up, or does it only do that under centrifugal force?
So I decide to go back home through town and then home via back roads and staying off 4-lane. Noticing it running cooler, but pinging taking off in first gear. And I’m only driving 45 or 50. Also should mention once she gets warmed up the throttle seems to be sticking open between shifts. Goes back down if you tap the pedal quick and release. What would be making throttle plates be sticking open under operating temps?
Last couple miles of the 7 or so miles home and I decide to go a little faster. It accelerated ok, but then it started running quite crapping. Wasn’t really sputtering, just more like loosing power, maybe missing. I down shifted to 3rd, then to 2nd about a 1/4mile from the house, then first a block or so away. Made it to the drive way, and it dies Restarts ok but turns over hard/sluggish like cars do when timing is off (did that at the gas station too).
So I’m suspecting intake leaks. I have not done any re-torqueing of the intake bolts. I notice a little like oily seepage between the extra gasket that sticks out and the head mating side on the drivers side front. Looking up some of the symptoms of this it seems to maybe fit. I’ve read in multiple spots on a couple forums about checking the bolts after several hot/cold cycles. This motor has been rebuilt for years, but one short trip last fall, and a couple this summer is all that’s went on it so far other than running it to get it in and out of the shop while finishing everything else up over the years.
I’ve never did any adjusting on the carb either. I had the right Holley restored at Pony Carb years back when they were still around but didn’t do anything beyond putting it on and running it. The car smells “gassy” when it runs. Thought maybe it could be exhaust leaks because I just clamped the pipes to H-pipe, mufflers etc. Still should be ok, but I am really unhappy with the fitment of the cheaper exhaust system I bought from a Mustang supplier years back, so it could be that.
My heater control valve to bracket sprung a leak also even though I put a new o-ring in there when I restored it all. I guess I should have also smeared some sealant on it, and I have a noise coming from the rear end, kinda a clunking maybe from drivers side I don’t have the friction modifier in the rear end, just 80/90 weight. And it’s a GL-5 not GL4 like I’ve read in multiple spots with the limited slip modifier added.
Went out and started it up a little bit ago after all has cooled down. Starts right up. Idles like it always has, which may be a little rough. Coolant level is basically up where it was even though I know a little has been lost.
I’m a little embarrassed I guess cuz though I have many a talent in other areas engine mechanics isn’t one of them, and this was my first engine rebuild. I am far from an expert, and it is an FE which I have read can have it’s quirks. After some of the reading I’ve done on the quirks I’m hoping I don’t have a pile of junk on my hands.
Feel free to PM me if you want to exchange phone numbers. Maybe looking for someone to come along side and try to mentor me through this.
Thanks!
Running good cold then lousy hot is a symptom of intake manifold gaskets. As the water pressure increases any leaks through a bad paper gasket show up. The water goes either into the engine valley then oil or into the intake ports adjacent to the corner water ports greatly affecting running. Sometimes those corner spark plugs will have a different color. After years of having FEs intake gaskets can be a problem. Hook up a vacuum meter and watch it as the car warms up. If it starts dropping there’s a leak. You can try re-tightening the bolts. If a bolt won’t tighten to torque then you will have to get a longer bolt to get a few threads deeper into the head. Did the engine re-builder replace the temperature sensor in the intake? If so and an auto parts store one was used it will be reading too high. You need a good used or NOS Ford sensor to get the right resistance.
I will have to do some reading on carb setting. I didn’t ever figure it was going to be plug and play, just good enough to get me running close. I have watched the oil over the years in the short run times and idles, and have not witnessed any milky oil. I am confident coolant isn’t getting there. I have witnessed moisture in the exhaust on start up. Not a lot. maybe a couple of good tablespoons full. Always rusty so I assume it comes after shut down at some point, and sits in exhaust some where. Hoping it was just condensation, and maybe it is, don’t know.
I was the engine rebuilder. Didn’t do the disassembly or machining aspect, (boring or valve grinding) I had the shop put in freeze plugs and cam bearings, and assemble the valves into the heads. I did the rest. Pretty reputable shop. They build a lot of race car engines for the local track guys. I don’t recall what brand gaskets they provided. I have read Felpro are less desirable perhaps? So anyway I put the new sensor in, and it did come from a parts store. Tried using the original one that was in the manifold, and it wasn’t working.
May have to redo the intake. I will try to do the re-torque thing first and see just where their at, and get my coolant leaks squared away. I know the car also starts hard when cold. Takes a fair amount of pumping to get it going, and usually don’t stay running right off. But within a minute or so of accelerator work it will stay.
Thanks for the input.
The FE is a bit of mystery if you have never had one, like me. I never played around with a big block back in the day so when I got Pole Cat it was, lets say interesting. Five years later I very pleased with my FE.
A couple of things that I have learned along the way, start with finding out how much vacuum you have at idle and timing. Set the base timing and then the carb. Don’t even mess with the carb (the carb helps create that vacuum) until you set timing is what I learned. In your case I would not even torque the intake bolts until I had some evidence that they might need to be tightened.
Vacuum advance issues created pinging on acceleration in my car as well. I am loosing my hearing and can’t hear pinging or most knocking anymore and although I thought I had the timing, especially the vacuum advance curve set perfectly, my wife got in the car and when I got on it at a stop sign, she said your car sounds like $#it! So I tested my vacuum advance module and found it to be bad.
The moral here is take your time, ask questions and don’t throw parts at it. There are normal steps or inspections that you can do to most parts to show that a part is bad. If you want to play with your car as I call it, get some of the basic tools like a vacuum gage, timing light, VOM meter (electrical meter) compression gage and learn how to use them. They are pretty reasonable price wise.
Where are you in Wisconsin? The are other members from Wisconsin.
Hey, to bad Auburn is not closer. We will have about 65 cars there and lot of help.
Before you go any further, check the timing and make sure it is correct. Verify that you don’t have external vacuum leaks, and in particular confirm that the vacuum advance is working. Heating up a highway speeds is a very common symptom of a bad vacuum diaphragm. Once the timing is set you need to get the carb dialed in. You will need a vacuum gauge to do this. It sounds like you have a weak throttle return spring. Check to see if the linkage is binding, and also confirm that you have the spring anchor bracket oriented properly. Also, don’t over look the obvious, speed equals heat, and older partially clogged radiator can keep and engine cool at idle but not at speed. At 50 MPH the fan is inconsequential, the ram air effect of pushing the radiator through the air is greater than the fans capability. Don’t sweat this, all of what you describe sounds like typical debugging to me.
My week has been very busy so I have not had time to look at this at all except the coolant puddle on the garage floor Couple questions; I need to start with fixing leaks first. I know I had some slight pitting on my water valve bracket when I took that all apart and redid it. I should just buy a new reproduction bracket rather than cleaning mine up and painting it mimicking a factory finish. My big question here is though does anyone have the specs on the proper O-ring to use there? I just went to the assortment section and found one that fit in the groove nice and that I thought was thick enough to do the job, but not too thick. I didn’t add any type of sealer. Should have I? I noticed in Andrews Snowball thread when he put his together he put a generous amount of RTV orange (I think) I found some good pointers on installing thermostat housing gaskets in other threads about coating both side with RTV and installing. It’s been an obvious problem for many. I also need to redo my water pump gaskets as one of them is seeping also. I’m thinking I should apply that same technique to those. Slather both sides install and torque? I did a little searching this morning on high flow water pumps. JEGS has one, CVF racing. I’m not sure though if this is a good idea, and can it be done with factory pulleys? My water pump was new when I rebuilt the motor. Just thought if I had to take it off anyway…
Ii was mentioned above the sending unit. I did use a parts store one as my gauge wasn’t working at all prior to that. I read in another recent post where Royce even recommended getting a good use one from WCCC. Anyone know of any NOS ones or do I just need to search e-bay? I don’t see used ones on the WCCC web page, just their premium repro units.
My brother in law came over and set my timing at one point. I don’t have the book in front of me right now, but if memory serves is it 10deg at 750rpm on a 390 4-speed? We set it for what ever the manual says. I would be wise though to go through the distributor. I don’t even recall where I got this one. This was a salvage yard motor prior to rebuilding. Came out of a 65 Merc passengers car (can’t remember what kind) If that distributor was the original one off that motor, or it came with the original block and parts I got with the car, can’t remember anymore. I know I didn’t do anything to it aside from clean it up and install it. It probably could use a good rebuilding, and probably just put a new advance unit on it. Will have to do some more research on what that all takes.
As far as other vac leaks. The only thing I have hooked up for vac is the brake booster which was new, and the heater/AC controls which shouldn’t be leaking. I don’t have the headlight hooked up or operational as of yet. I am looking into getting a vac gauge and pump for testing. If someone has some links for the ones they like please share. Don’t know if top of the line like Snap-on or maybe something simpler will suffice?
Thanks for help!
Go a bit simpler on the vacuum Gage, etc. Many people believe Snap On and others like it are bit pricey. Good stuff from what I have seen. Anyway, mine is like a $20 unit from NAPA, I believe.
Please see post #9 Still looking for input on a few questions. The o-ring seal size is a big one. Spent quite a bit of time yesterday trying to find proper spec and material on that yesterday. Did buy a premium sending unit from WCCC, 180 degree thermo, and some other parts needed. The didn’t have a vac advance unit. I was thinking to get a new one of those also even though I have not tested mine yet.
New is not necessarily better. If your original sending unit is actually original and working it is going to be the best one. Ditto the vacuum advance - originals are carefully calibrated to each application. Replacements are often adjustable but not adjusted properly. Proper calibration and adjustment of the distributor are vital to proper operation including performance, economy, and engine temperature. I would test the distributor and adjust it (if it is working properly) before doing anything.
Thanks for commenting Royce. I plan on checking out the distributor as soon as I get a chance. The sending unit is not the original one. The original wasn’t working so I got one from local parts house. Works but the gauge seems one the high side, and seems like it wanders a bit.
Does anyone know what that seal between water valve and bracket is?
I have got my new plated heater water valve bracket to install. I am hoping that it will prevent leaking vrs the one I painted a gold color to mimic a plated one. My original one had pitting as well in the round area that was exposed to coolant. Does anyone know the correct spec O-ring or whatever the original seal would be to fit in that groove on the valve?
I needed one of those about 2 years ago for the XR7-G that I had then. I went to the local Pep Boys and they had a “Help” package with an O - ring assortment that had the right one. I installed it with a bit of RTV on the O - ring after sanding, priming, and painting the steel bracket.
I found some o-ring sizing on the Concours Mustang Forum. Been so stinking busy lately keepin up on chores and work. Did manage to pull vac on the advance unit. The diaphragm seems to be good there. It stayed put when I pulled it. When I get the water leaks fixed I will try the brake cleaner trick on the intake, or get a vac gauge at the parts store and see how that pulls. Isn’t it like 17lbs? Is that at idle or a set RPM?
David, just so you know, the vacuum is measured in inches of Mercury (its just the standard someone came up with way back when to measure vacuum). So the meter you would buy at the auto parts store would look like a pressure gage but it is actually reading inches of Mercury (Hg). As I recall, on my 69 390 17 in Hg is toward the low side and would think your spec is the same but you will want to check that. Currently at idle mine reads 20 in Hg. Yes, for the most part we read at idle.
Just went thru my 67 GT this weekend fixing vacuum leaks. I started out with 13 hg and it has never idled since I gotten it with a lot of whistling going on. Just wasn’t a priority yet. Got all the little ones fixed with not much improvement. Then I found a split hose going to the PCV valve. Fixed that and I got 20 in hg and a real nice smooth idle now. I’m glad I found that because the next step was going to be replacing the Intake gasket.
I just took it into the nearby gas station to put some premium fuel in it. I had to get out on the 4-lane to get there, and never did take it above 60. I noticed the faster I got going the hotter it got and wanted to stay there. Almost to that last little section on the gauge. Made it to the gas station ok. Put gas in and checked under the hood cuz I know I have some seepage by the thermostat housing. No squirting out, but grabbed a hold of the fan clutch expecting to feel more resistance then when I’ve spun it cold. Notta, spins the same. Shouldn’t it be locking up, or does it only do that under centrifugal force?
Restarts ok but turns over hard/sluggish like cars do when timing is off (did that at the gas station too).
I don’t have the friction modifier in the rear end, just 80/90 weight. And it’s a GL-5 not GL4 like I’ve read in multiple spots with the limited slip modifier added.
Couple questions; I need to start with fixing leaks first. I know I had some slight pitting on my water valve bracket when I took that all apart and redid it. I should just buy a new reproduction bracket rather than cleaning mine up and painting it mimicking a factory finish. My big question here is though does anyone have the specs on the proper O-ring to use there? I just went to the assortment section and found one that fit in the groove nice and that I thought was thick enough to do the job, but not too thick. I didn’t add any type of sealer. Should have I? I noticed in Andrews Snowball thread when he put his together he put a generous amount of RTV orange (I think) I found some good pointers on installing thermostat housing gaskets in other threads about coating both side with RTV and installing. It’s been an obvious problem for many. I also need to redo my water pump gaskets as one of them is seeping also. I’m thinking I should apply that same technique to those. Slather both sides install and torque? I did a little searching this morning on high flow water pumps. JEGS has one, CVF racing. I’m not sure though if this is a good idea, and can it be done with factory pulleys? My water pump was new when I rebuilt the motor. Just thought if I had to take it off anyway…