I’ve had my car about 6 years now and I’ve been postponing this all this time, because I’m not quite sure how to deal with this.
So far I’ve learned how to set either a hydraulic or solid lifter cam, but the problem in my case 2-fold.
the car has an unknown aftermarket cam
I’m only 90% sure it’s a solid cam
So far I’ve pulled all the plugs, rotated the crank a few times and wrote down all the valve lash I’ve found for the E and I valves.
See the picture:
in case that’s unclear here are they as well:
E= 0.038 E= 0.024
I= 0.026 I= 0.020
E= 0.026 E= 0.000
I= 0.035 I= 0.040
E= 0.000 E= 0.032
I= 0.030 I= 0.040
E= 0.024 E= 0.028
I= 0.038 I= 0.038
As you can see my lowest value on 2 separate valves is 0.000 lash, which does not make sense if it was a solid cam.
However all the others have a lot of lash, up to 0.040 even.
What would you guys suggest in my case? Is there a way without removing the intake to be 100% sure it’s a solid cam?
My thoughts were that it is a solid cam, and I would set the lash at the lowest value’s I’ve recorded, being:
Exhaust 0.024
Intake 0.020
Online I’ve found the recommend that 0,015 (cold) on both valves is a safe bet.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
PS: all measurements were taken cold and i have Iron heads and block (351W)
EDIT: heads have guide plates and rockers are also aftermarket rollers from Erson 1.6 ratio
Not likely you have a 351W with solids. Does the head have guide plates to keep the pushrods located? If not, it’s not solid.
There is no lash setting with hydraulic cams. They are considered zero lash. Once you fill us in we can pass along instructions.
I misread that on my cell. Guide plates are generally used with rollers because MOST aren’t rail rockers. So no, It doesn’t mean he has solid lifters. I would suggest you try bleeding the lifter down. If you can’t they’re solids. If it gets mushy after you keep the spring compressed on it over night they’re hydraulics. I have adjustable rockers on my FE but they are ran with a hydraulic cam. I’d suggest you make sure they don’t bleed down before assuming you have a solid cam.
Ok, i’ll try to bleed one down. But i’m not quite sure how I can see if it’s mushy? It’s the first time i’m actually working on cam/lifters so this is a bit unknown territory for me.
Do I let one valve compressed over night and then rotate the engine so the tension is off, then look at that pushrod and see if it comes up gradually?
EDIT:
I found this older video on YT, is this a viable way to test? Because I could easily compress a valve in this manner, but no gradual push down could be noted on the lifter over time.
[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl9oDaMLCME[/YouTube]
Like 67427GT500 said if you have non rail roller tip rockers you will have guide plates to maintain alignment regardless if it’s a solid or hydraulic lifters. Do you have a dial indicator with a magnetic base? If not it’s a good tool to have in the tool box. Put the dial indicator on the rocker arm on the push tube end. Bar the engine over so that position is on lift. Watch the dial indicator and see if it goes negative (leaking down) then it’s hydraulic. No movement it’s solid. Generally hyd lifters have a full travel of .120" and are set at mid travel .060" They’re ground in categories and the leakdown rate can very and be influenced by the weight of the oil and temperature. If the engine is warm it will be easier to tell then a cold engine with cold oil as it will leakdown slower with cold oil.
Solid lash settings really depends on the camshaft profile and can very a lot from cam to cam depending on how the opening and closing ramps are ground. What you’re trying to do is give it enough lash so you don’t hold a valve open once the engine is warn and thermo expansion has occurred. On the other end you don’t want to much lash or you’ll miss the opening & closing ramps of the lift profile and that’s when you start breaking parts (valve springs/valves). Aftermarket camshafts can have totally different ramps then a stock camshaft which will have totally different lash settings.
Example is my Boss 302 Mustang which has solid lifters. The stock solid Ford camshaft has valve lash set at .025" cold. The cam has longer gentler lift ramps. The aftermarket camshaft I have custom profile ground has valve lash set at .013" shorter more aggressive ramps. If I was to set it at the .025" stock spec I would be missing the ramps and breaking parts.
In conclusion first find out if it is solid or hydraulic. If it is hydraulic set lash at mid travel around .060" If it is solid then you’re kind of shooting in the dark if you don’t know what solid camshaft you have. .020" would be a good average number to try.
My suspicion is you have a hydraulic camshaft. With the lash numbers you posted you’re actually measuring the lifter sponge (air in the lifter vs oil).
You can borrow a lifter bleeding tool at any Auto Zone for free. I doubt that you actually need one.
Small block Fords that originally had solid lifters have slots in the head where pushrods go through. This feature does not exist in small block Ford heads that originally had hydraulic lifters. Guide plates are necessary to use a solid lifter cam in these engines regardless of the style of rocker arm, rail or non - rail.
Thx for all the info guys.
So far I have learned that having aftermarket guide plate (like in my case) does not mean it’s a solid cam, so that part I can ignore for now.
Secondly most of you suggest some kind of leak down test in various manners. I’ve tried the manner shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl9oDaMLCME
In closed valve position, I could easily compress the valve via the manner shown in the video. However even after waiting a full minute could not get the lifter to bleed down. I am correct to assume then that I do have an aftermarket solid cam and lifters?
If my conclusion is correct, would the lowest numbers recorded (cold) of Intake 0.020 en exhaust 0.024 be a good safe setting to go with?
Therefore ignoring the 2 valves that weirdly have 0.000 lash
In closed valve position, I could easily compress the valve via the manner shown in the video. However even after waiting a full minute could not get the lifter to bleed down. I am correct to assume then that I do have an aftermarket solid cam and lifters?
No, if it’s a solid lifter their is no bleed down. Just loose lash. You have most likely pushed the oil out of the lifter. The resistance you’re now easily pushing against is the lifter ID plunger return spring and the high pressure chamber now has air in it verses oil which will have less resistance.
I might have expressed myself wrong (english is not my native language, dutch is ), what I mean is as follows:
I let the engine sit over night
I choose a vale which is closed all the way, and where the rocker is loose/has lash
I press down on that rocker in order to push down onto the pushrod and therefore the lifter itself
I’ve done this via the YT fragment, so by using a flathead screwdriver as a lever to press down on the valve itself. So by making a lever I try to push the rocker upwards on the roller side, therefore pushing down on the pushrod (not the valve).
When doing that the valve pushes down meaning the valve itself with the spring, but the pushrod side does not go down in the slighest
I hope I’ve made that more clear to understand what i’m trying to say
You really need a digital indicator on it to see if it’s moving. When lifters are produced leakdown fuid is used (like kerosene). and the leakdown rate is checked around 5 seconds to 1:30 minutes depending on application with 50 lbs weight. With cold engine oil and depending on the oil weight it can be anywhere from a few minutes to almost an hour for it to leakdown. The other factor is the pressure you’re putting on it which is the valve spring load in your process.
In conclusion it can be leaky down at such a slow rate you wouldn’t see it with the naked eye with the process your using.
In the video you’re referencing. He noted the engine is warm (warm oil). which will be night & day difference at the rate it leaks down vs cold oil.
That’s also an option, btw not fluent in German, Dutch is my native language. Belgium is only about 1% german speaking, most are dutch, second french.
I was also thinking (could be a bad idea) to remove a pushrod and pull a lifter out with a long magnet? Worst case would be that if falls off in the lifter valley and that I have to take off the intake I suppose.
But lets say I get it out safely, since its not a roller cam, orientation when putting in back should not matter right?
I second Keith’s endoscope recommendation. I bought one to determine whether my non-original engine was flat tappet or a modern roller tappet one. I actually could tell even before I lit up the endoscope, but the endoscope permits pictures you can post!
), what I mean is as follows: