1985 Cougar LS 5.0L HELP!!!

Cougar Community Classic Cougar Maintenance Restoration and Repair
1

Good afternoon,

I have a 1985 Cougar LS with a 5.0 302 EFI.

I started having issues a while back with bogging down, so I changed the plugs and wires, gapped them at .54 and changed the cap and rotor as well.

I noticed a change but I still bog and do terrible on gas.

Firing order is verified multiple times, i changed the air filter and fuel filter, ran plenty of seafoam in the gas tank because it was goopy in the fuel filter. I ran new positive and negative cables, I replaced the ignition coil, the solenoid is newer the water pump is newer, all 3 belts are brand new…

I keep blowing coolant lines so I replaced the inlet and outlet to the heater core as it started with a pinhole on the inlet but the outlet split as well. I see no evidence of a plugged heater core and after replacing both with high temp silicone lines they don’t blow but I blew the smaller heater hose size going to what I assume is the EGR cooler, but I am unsure.

I also hear a pinging or metal chain rattling sound, my old room mate adjusted timing by ear but never tightened the bolt so I timed it by ear when I could but once I put it in a bad spot and stalled out where my engine was smoking and wouldn’t start. I moved the cap with the car off and restarted it. When all of this occurred I am worried that I may have jumped the timing chain a tooth however the sound went away the more advanced the timing was.

The noise I hear sounds more like the timing chain rattling than a pinging but it could be a pinging. I took it to someone and he said he adjusted to 10 degrees for me but I see a line at 0 and think he has it at 0 not 10. I want to verify this before I assume timing chain is bad instead of bad timing.

Is anyone local to the Metro Detroit area who ia Knowledgeable about this car? I’m trying really hard to learn but not many people are helpful and for a DD I can’t afford to keep throwing money at it. I’m unwilling to sell it I will park it in Canada at my girlfriend’s house if I can’t drive it, I found a $800 mustang v6 with 76k miles for my new DD if I can’t figure this out but I hate square mustangs and prefer my body style.

I need to get this car good enough to drive to work for a short while till I can park it. I want to drop a 302 boss in it, upgrade the trans, do mods and put a Mark chassis on it and all the good stuff eventually.

If anyone in the Metro Detroit area can help me learn, I will pay you to help me troubleshoot if I have to.

If not can anyone please contact me via video chat to help me?

Thank you for your time and have a great day.

EDIT: I forgot to mention it smells rich of gas at times out the exhaust (usually on start up, cold start) but my pressure at idle is about 32PSI for gas. How with low fuel pressure am I rich? The FPR and Injectors look fairly new but I will replace them if I should suspect them. The FPR is Bosch anyways I don’t like them.

Also the radiator is not clogged and is new from PO, he had a new Power Steering pump put on, radiator and water pump he said. The radiator looks new for sure, I work in hotels and am HVaC certified, I can tell it’s a newer finned and newer metal.

Another note, I have changed the oil frequently, I changed to full synthetic two changes ago while still running like shit because I’m unsure of Po changes. I add restore at every oil change, I ran Valvoline full synthetic for the first change and it sucked. I used my regular wix filter, and when I changed to Mobil 1 with wix XP I noticed a big difference but still worry viscousity issues

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The rich smelling exhaust is a tell tale sign that the mixture is not being burned completely. This is a symptom of timing not set correctly. You need to have the timing set properly and then you need to verify that it is proper at all RPM’s, not just at idle. You need to find someone who is competent to do he job and who has the appropriate timing light for the job.

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Why all of a sudden hundreds of miles after the car started running like shit would my coolant lines start blowing because of timing?

I suspected the EGR to be bad before but now with two high pressure lines where it blew before I can see coolant pissing / steaming either at the small EGR cooling line or the metal line I can see but I suspect maybe the drops are getting down there and steaming. This leak is new or was unable to be verified with the old leaks so I’m unsure right now.

Should I change / bypass EGR and see if the coolant line was clogged / would the EGR being clogged and or stuck open / closed cause this?

If it is not this causing my pressure to build up what would I check for a plug next or what would cause new heater hose to blow a pin hole / slit under pressure?

I’m going to probably buy a timing light from O’Reilly’s or something tonight and have the old timer who knows how timing works verify timing or if chain needs replacement tonight.

After that what do I do to stop blowing coolant hoses and what do I do for non molded hoses? The EGR cooler hose does a large curve that would kink if replaced with bulk hose

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I’d post on CoolCats.net or look around there but I broke my old phone and this Alcatel won’t open the page. It comes back saying I am not receiving data from the pages no matter what.

Any help in the right direction is appreciated and sorry if this is the wrong forum.

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with the issue of blowing/leaking hoses you might want to check for a blown head gasket. you can check it with a Combustion Leak Test Kit , or on a cold motor remove radiator cap just to confirm no pressure. tighten radiator cap and start motor let run for only a couple minutes then crack open radiator cap. if system is already pressurized more than likely you have a blown head gasket.

note; be careful of hot coolant.

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My friends dad narrowed us down to checking for blown hg, old timer moved to South Carolina but was visiting this week.

He held tight to the coolant line at the outlet of the heater core going towards the thermostat housing or water pump i didn’t see and said when I give it gas it feels like air bubbles are in it.

I’m going to replace this hose tomorrow and pressure test.

I’m pretty bummed im pretty sure I caught the blown HG in the beginning but hopefully the hoses are just old

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Well if the car is out of time and not making good power it will tend to run hot and overheat. You really need someone who is competent enough to do a tune up. Replacing parts may seem like the answer, but it won’t fix the actual problem, so you will continue to have costly issues.



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Here’s the weird thing tho, how is my engine over heating if the needle stays at 1/4 and doesn’t move? My coolant is only pissing slightly, I still have a full overflow tank

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is it over heating?

if air is at sensor instead of coolant it will not read proper temp.

explain “bogging down”

also you stated “it smells rich of gas at times out the exhaust” rotten egg smell? if so you might have clogged catalytic converter.

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The fox era cars have a restrictor in the inlet for the heater core to help with blowing out the cores, make sure when you’re swapping those hoses around you get that thing back in there or you may end up with a footwell full of antifreeze.

When you are checking the firing order are you using the one printed on the intake manifold ? If you use the HO firing order on a non-HO motor you’ll end up down on power with some odd sounds. The Mustangs use a different cam so you can’t just assume the firing order is the same.

When setting the timing be sure and pull any vacuum or the SPOUT connector depending on the fuel injection setup. I think 85 should be a throttle-body injected unit so I’m not sure if there was an electric connector to pull or if it was still using the duraspark style distributor with a vacuum advance.

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I replaced the restrictor to the inlet, when I hook coolant pressure gauge up and my system is rated at 16 PSI, when I pump it up to 18 PSI I always pop another hose. The old man says the leak is very slow on the gauge, I can hear another line pissing slightly. I guess I can’t tell if HG is blown until I replace all of the hoses and pressure test cold.

Timing is around 15 now the wires were pulling on the cap and I think it was at 10 before but pulled down to where it was at 4. I want to try to adjust to 10-14 to see where it drives best but I’m getting 150-175 miles out of a gas tank and when my exhaust was the proper size before I had these issues I could get 350-400 easily.

I pulled spout electronic when I tested timing. I think my rattle is the side kick exhaust hitting the pinch.

Explaining bogging down: when I punch it it has very bad hesitation sometimes like the engine is doing a lot of work but I’m not moving as fast as I know the engine should be.

I can’t identify an IAC on this car. I’m unsure about the EGR and all I can find is duralast junk.

The cat is confirmed unclogged,

I want to get it off the road and do suspension before I continue. Does any one know where I can part off these around Metro Detroit? I would hit parts galore because they used to have a few donor cars but the closest car they have is a mustang that’s too new. Im not parting off suspension but there’s a few things I’m seeking, hopefully a fully digital cluster, a brake warning red plastic nut for the proportioning valve, and a few other things

Online suggestions?

While I’m here, what’s the best I can do with this thing? Can I fit a 5.0 HO from a mustang or can i put anything better in this? I wanted to do a 5.0 HO from a similar mustang, upgrade trans with a kit if possible and do mark 6 chassis I think or maybe mark 7 I’ll have to find the online conversion again.

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I just validated 85 is a CFI car, which means throttle-body injection. You don’t have an IAC valve because they used a stepper motor that was set up more like a carburetor on there.

I’m having trouble following some of the things you’re referencing here.

“duralast junk” ? I am guessing you’re not talking about a battery ? Do you mean duraspark ?

“Can I fit a 5.0 HO from a mustang or can i put anything better in this?” You’ve got a 5.0L (302) many would argue there isn’t anything better. The Mustangs with an automatic for 85 used the same motor you have, the 5spds were carbbed – the last year of it before multiport injection. The newest 5.0s are totally different animals. Swapping in a multi-port injected motor will require a wiring harness and computer as well as the motor and sensors. Not impossible, but not something to just jump in and do either.

“do mark 6 chassis I think or maybe mark 7” I’m not familiar with the Mk-VI and only a little experience with the VII. At any rate the Mustang, Mk-VII, and 83-88 Cougars and T-birds are all based on the Fox unibody platform (along with the Fairmont/Zephyr and a few others). I’m not sure what additional bracing or anything the Mk-VII may have gotten over the Mustangs and Cougars, but the Mustang does have some major differences in the inner fenders/radiator support/bumper areas. That said, about all that’s majorly different on the suspension is the length on the shocks and struts. With the V8 already in the Cougar you should have the big sway bar in the front already and possibly one in the rear, though likely not.

“and when my exhaust was the proper size before I had these issues” — where does this come from ? What size are you running ? What changed first, this issue or the exhaust ? When the exhaust was done was the O2 sensor moved or removed ? That could have a pretty sizable effect on mileage and performance.

Also, with the CFI, make sure the injectors are both spraying. The clips on top of them can be a little sensitive and at this age are brittle, if you bumped one of them with the air cleaner it’s possible you knocked it off and it’s not reseating properly. When it’s running check that there is fuel from both nozzles up there.

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I’ll take a picture of the engine if I can remember or have time later.

Sorry for the crazy formats to my questions, been crazy hella busy.

I have a slow 5.0 and want to get more HP, I’m reading on cool cats that you want to drop a HO in for more HP. I want to get more than 300 as a goal, it only gets 150 if I’m lucky currently stock.

I’m reading a lot about this car and what to do with it but you guys have the knowledge and experience. What can I do to make this turd get way more HP?

My exhaust originally came out at 2 inches from the flange at the CAT but I had someone weld a new exhaust and muffler to the end. Unfortunately he was a welder with little time and the exhaust caught the driveshaft and didn’t cause any damage but yanked the exhaust and flange out so I had a friend who does exhaust work give me a side kick just behind where my door is at at about 2.75 to 2.50 inches with a chrome tip he got from a Subaru he cut the exhaust off of.

Nothing electrical got fucked with on the exhaust, only work done was after CAT. Thanks can feel steady exhaust gases coming out, had a few mechanics check everyone says CAT is good.

Basically where I’m at is that I think timing is at 15, I want to get it to 12 and verify it. What it does is when I fire it up cold, say 12 hours after the last drive, it’ll shake and try to stall without giving it gas but if I give it gas it’ll stay running and drive no problem.

It doesn’t fire right up which has me suspecting timing again because when I played by ear I could get it to fire right up but it drove like shit at higher speeds.

I get about 150-180 miles from a tank now, before the last time I adjusted timing it was getting 50-100 and before I had any problems I’d get 250-450.

I did bump injectors as well how do I check them?

Also, I bought the mustang but it has a weird brake issue. It’s a v6 convertible, it’ll stop if you press the brakes to the floor hard so I pulled the vacuum to the brake booster and it’s sucking but when I plug both sides of the vacuum I get depth back just won’t stop. Brake booster or vacuum leak? If you pump brakes it’ll idle better with RPMs but the depth and stopping doesn’t change at all. You have to find the sweet spot to stop.

Thank you very much for your time, I’m still leaning but started less than 6 months ago and without forums like these would be lost as an idiot could be.

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I did bump injectors as well how do I check them?

With the light around them properly you’ll see cones of fuel spraying out of them. We found the issue using starter fluid initially and when sprayed near one of the injectors the miss went away briefly, then discovered the spray not coming out because the light was right, and eventually just my finger on the connector verified that it did work when I pushed it on further and when I let up it would start missing again.

Also, I bought the mustang but it has a weird brake issue. It’s a v6 convertible, it’ll stop if you press the brakes to the floor hard so I pulled the vacuum to the brake booster and it’s sucking but when I plug both sides of the vacuum I get depth back just won’t stop. Brake booster or vacuum leak? If you pump brakes it’ll idle better with RPMs but the depth and stopping doesn’t change at all. You have to find the sweet spot to stop.

As base Mustangs go these dual piston calipers were decent systems when they came out (put one on a 4cyl Fox body Mustang and it was a riot!)

I would suspect the master cylinder itself is the issue here, though pumping the pedal a couple of times should bring it up. Unhooking the vacuum for the booster simply means you aren’t getting any assist on pushing the brakes. It would never have occurred to me to plug the booster side of things when checking for a vacuum leak, but I wonder if having that plugged is artificially creating pedal feel by not allowing the air to move around in the booster properly ?

Check the whole system for leaks and be sure the master is full of fluid and not just a stained reservoir.

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I’m not understanding what you mean by spray starter fluid and a light? What am I looking for, with the mustang I see it spray well. I’ll have to check with the cougar but I don’t see either spray at all but I haven’t paid attention for it either.

Also with the mustang, the brakes work just fine when the car is off. When you turn it on the vacuum “sucks” the pedal depth away. The car will stop but only at the floor board with the right pressure.

Also I found this asshole cut the part of the coolant system where a vac line comes in at ill have to look at the cougar engine to figure out where its supposed to go and why he did it.

Also found an electrical jacket protector with electrical tape in place of the vacuum between the air box and oil cap.

Feels amazing on the freeway with the top down but that’s about it

Thank you very much.

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I verified timing at 12 degrees but it still feels like it hesitates trying to accelerate. I have ran it at 10-14 no difference on premium fuel.

It wants to cold start stall without giving it gas and it seems to accelerate great cold but when its warm it seems to run like shit a bit.

I see gas bubbling on the butterfly valves but I don’t really see them spraying as clearly as I did in the mustang. My fuel gauge is also a floater. I was concerned maybe my fuel pump is junk but now im not sure what to check or change or how.

Lost man

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One thing I’m curious about, I switched to Mobil 1 full synthetic after it started running like shit.

It has 5w30 in it but I’m worried maybe the viscousity is off or that the conventional oil had something to it that might make it have an issue with acceleration but at the same time it hasn’t really changed how it’s ran other than when I switched to a wix XP filter it seemed to get up and go better only the first time i punched it after an oil change.

It feels different than that time I punched it and i dont know how to describe it.

Hopefully by next month I can pull some covers and change some gaskets

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Changing the oil and gaskets isn’t going to affect things UNLESS you do it wrong, and replacing gaskets in a system with a lot of old wires and vacuum lines is asking to break things.

What year is this Mustang you’re working with? You said V6 convertible and I was thinking you had said something about 99-01, but I don’t see it on reviewing things. It could theoretically be an 83/4 I suppose, but those are pretty rare these days, and 94-98 could certainly be an option – at any rate the 83/4 would have the same motor as your Cougar, but the others will be vastly different outside of the block and heads.

Cold stalling and running poorly when warm would make me start looking at things like vacuum lines and temperature sensitive switches. Primarily the vacuum because of the cold stalling issue. Also since you had exhaust work done and re-done, verify that the O2 sensor is screwed in, snug, and plugged in. If it doesn’t know how much O2 is in the system it’s going to do some weird stuff. Any chance you have an exhaust leak – a tick – coming from the exhaust up front either ?

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It has the same engine, I was told it’s an 86, I’ll run the vin later. Its a v6 instead of v8 the cougar has a Windsor the mustang has an essex, I found the brake vacuum leak and blew a brake line when I fixed it.

Also the car doesn’t stall but tries to when you give it gas it never tries to stall, only on the initial start up.

I’ll look for switches on the exhaust but they are all before the cat and my cat has never been touched

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You have speed density fuel injection system vs mass air. Which means the computer is taking in information and trying to predict what the air flow into the engine should be and adjusts fuel/timing according base on the conditions. To start with the 5.0L in the Cougar in 85 was only 150 hp so don’t expect much when it is tuned properly. With that said you should be seeing around 15 to 20 mpg from the 85 5.0L setup in the Cougar and closer to the 20 mpg. I would check your MAP sensor (manifold air pressure) and the O2 sensor (oxygen sensor in the exhaust) to start as they feed two key pieces of information to the computer to adjust fuel & timing. Check the wiring plugs for corrosion. Check for vacuum leaks. I would still look at the cat being plugged. One gas tank full of of rich fuel condition out the exhaust can plug the converter. A good mod would be to remove the converter and use a long piece of threaded rod and knockout the honeycomb guts out of the converter and reinstall. Then you know it’s not plugged. Your exhaust note will be slightly loader.