Joining the forum as I am looking to buy a cougar, i have seen a 67 (standard, not XR7) that fits what i’m looking for, however there’s something confusing about the VIN number. As I will have to get it shipped to a different state, i want to understand a bit more about the VIN …
I have asked the seller to do some research, but i’d like to get the point of view of “the interwebs” about it.
The car has 2 VIN numbers stamped on the apron on the driver side, one that looks like the factory one, and one that looks like it’s been stamped by a 5 year old. The “factory/legit” one does NOT match the door tag nor the title, instead it differs by ONE digit in the sequential number (the part after the “5”). Otherwise it is all the same. The one that has been stamped next to it does match the title and the door tag. The door tag doesnt show any basic/obvious tampering (it is riveted).
Speaking to the seller, i dont have reasons to believe there is any attempt at wrong doing however i’d like to understand if there are legitimate scenarios where that would happen.
I have ordered a deluxe marti report for the VIN that shows on the title/door tag/manual stamp.
Here’s a link to a photo.
The blue VIN looks like the factory one, that doesnt match the title
The red one is the one that matches the title. It is very hard to read on the photo, but by applying a lot of squinting it does match the title.
I think i can see 2 spot welds on the photo, to the right. I didnt see any major difference with the apron on the other side with regards to spot welds or assembly. One weird thing was that there was some goop (some sort of old white soft filler, something between bathroom silicone and old chewing gum) between the fender and the apron on that side, which was not the case on the passenger side.
I am far from an expert on this subject but here are a few thoughts. The few double stamps that I have seen are usually a case of one digit being stamped over the first stamping. Or sometimes a double stamp will have the second stamping directly above the first one. Something like this. 7F91CXXXXXX
7F91CXXXXXT
I see some rust where the apron meets the shock tower, a normal rust area. With this rust it is very possible that the apron is original and has not been replaced.
A few other thoughts. You say that the seller has a title. Does that mean that the seller has an actual paper title? If so I would ask if there are any notations or codes on it to indicate that the VIN has been altered. Secondly I would look into the rules in your state regarding the VIN. It may be possible that having 2 different VINs on the same car could present you with problems getting the car legally on the road in your state.
I’ve seen the paper title but didn’t detail it. I saw the VIN on it matching the door tag. Seller said he had not noticed that there were 2 VINs on the apron until i pointed out the “factory location” VIN was wrong.
My biggest worry is indeed having problems getting the car legally on the road. I’m also concerned about having the car in transit across the country.
I live in Massachusetts. I’m not sure what the rules are. The process to get a title transfer doesnt seem to involve a VIN inspection as some other states do. We do however have a mandatory yearly inspection process where service stations are licensed to perform state inspections and VIN check is part of the list. I’m thinking the next logical step would be to speak to a local inspection station and ask them what the official rules are.
In the many Cougars and Mustangs I’ve looked at, they have never had anything stamped where the ‘RED’ number is located. Several duplicate VINs I have seen were one above the other in the “BLUE” area. Being a 67 there is not the second tag under the windshield to help in verifying. You should send both VINs to Phil Parcels to see if they are registered.
The number circled in red doesn’t look factory. Appears someone added it to match the title and door data plate. The door data plate can be easily changed as tags and rivets are available. They might have even replaced the whole door that goes with the paper titled Cougar. The current owner needs to get a marti on both vin numbers and compare options to determine what vin number belongs to this Cougar. If it ends up being the vin circled in blue which would be my bet. You can apply for a lost title which is easy, and get a repo door tag to match and change that. The seller needs to take care of this before you purchase it. If he is unwilling I would walk away and find another Cougar.
I have the marti for the title for the weird/red number and it does match the description and options of the car as far as I can tell.
How do I know if the other one exists? Do I have to order a report for it? Assume I’ll be charged for it regardless if it exists?
The VIN on a 67 is also stamped on the passengers side apron. But it is covered by the fender lip. Also on the drivers side a second stamping should be under the fender lip.
The 67 fenders have a cut out in the mounting lip to reveal the stamped VIN. This was discontinued on later models and the fender lip then covers up the stamping. I believe that this is because the 67s did not have the VIN tag visible through the windshield and the later models do.
Here’s how the front end looks like. I can see a cutout which is close to where the non-matching VIN is (green zone in the photo below). I cant see any cutout on the passenger side fender. Where would the VIN be located on that side ?
I think you may be over complicating things, if your goal is just to register the car.
I bought mine without a title in NY. The VIN inspection in NH was a law enforcement officer looking at the dash VIN and comparing it to the bill of sale, then signing off on my application for title.
When I moved it to Mass last month, the inspection was title to application, no physical inspection of the car. The safety inspection was also lacking a VIN physical inspection.
The door may be a replacement door. It’s not a VIN, as the tag states on the door warranty tag. Texas and I had a come to Jesus meeting over my Shelby because the tag was off the vehicle and they wanted to use the ford number instead of the Shelby vin that was on the title.
You’ll have to loosen the right fender up and move it back about a half inch. There should be a vin in the same location as on the left. They should both match each other.
-Keith