Facts, Opinions, and Fakes

Cougar Community Classic Cougar Community Discussion
1

In a different thread one of the members is faced with a common problem: Knowing who to believe and what the facts actually are. West Coast Classic Cougar holds us as experts, in the Cougar world. I have no doubt that the experts are here and have the correct answers, but how can new users know that? Considering that just about every Cougar guy owns a shelf full of Mustang parts that “should fit a Cougar” we know how much misinformation is out there.

In trying to moderate this site I struggle with the balance between matters of opinion and out right bad advice. On the one hand people are free to do what ever they please, but the laws of physics, if nothing else, seem to be hard to beat.

When it comes to how they were built at the factory we actually know more today than we did 10 years ago. The problem is when people “think” that they know something. So we get people that own a '68 that “think” they know how the hideaway headlights work on a '67. Or that “think” to be ram air a Cougar has to be an R code. Or that Some Boss Eliminators had Ram air since '70 Boss 302 Mustangs could come that way. I could go on and on. Do we have an obligation to try to set these things straight? I think that we do.

One thing you may not know about this forum is that we don’t prune the forums. If it was posted here 10 years ago, it’s still here and still searchable. That means that bad information can live essentially forever. And over time those incorrect bits and pieces start to get re-posted in other places. Jim Pinkerton has worked diligently to keep the fiction out of the GT-E world and it has been very effective. I haven’t heard of a Q code '68 in a long time and there used to be several claiming to be such a thing. I think the CCOA is also working to this end. What do you guys think?

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I think you’ve always had the right balance Bill.

It’s easy for us old-timers: most of us have known each other for a DECADE or two. Over all that time we know who the “subject matter experts” are. Flawed advice is usually self-policed (i.e. someone will correct you if you’ve got it wrong).

Personally, I’ve learned a ton being around these guys/gals & the scene for so long. Collectively, we’ve got so much history together, so when we get snippy/break balls, etc., I like to think we “get” each other. In some ways our Cougar family resembles a less profane version of the barber shop scene from Gran Torino.

Harder for the newer folks to be as familiar with the cast of characters, but it seems people assimilate pretty quickly. Properly vetting information sources is a key skill for any seeker of knowledge, and there are lots of clues: Randy’s CCOA # is 95, we have CCOA registrars posting, Neal could work on any of our cars blindfolded, etc. Searching topics of interest and reading/reviving old posts w/new questions will speed up the learning process as well.

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I for one have no problem being shown the light when I get something wrong. I’d encourage you to not hesitate to add an EDITED section to any old posts that keep resurfacing with outdated info.

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I may have been here for a very long time but I know one thing: I am no “subject matter expert”.

My wisdom is knowing that I don’t know.

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by Cougars_R_Grr8 » 6 minutes ago
I may have been here for a very long time but I know one thing: I am no “subject matter expert”.

My wisdom is knowing that I don’t know.

I know lot of things, but I also know I do not know all that much. I have been corrected on mistakes and will I am sure be again. I really like the way Cougars_R_Grr8 puts it; My wisdom is knowing that I don’t know.

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As long as it stays cordial and helpful, no harm done.

But when expertise turns to arrogance - then the hobby loses its appeal for a lot of folks.

Sadly, my boys don’t like going to shows anymore. According to them, the older folks won’t give them the time of day, or even respond to polite, well intentioned attempts to engage & learn.

7

Here is the email we sent out recently that essentially says “we are not the experts on everything, CCC with its combined knowledge is far superior”.

https://westcoastclassiccougar.cmail19.com/t/ViewEmail/j/B79E12A9D173BDBA2540EF23F30FEDED/7AB4FEC1B2D442650F8C96E86323F7F9

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I am no expert on Cougars or Cougar wiring, but am learning.

My two cents: some forums, after they have gained significant years of posts and experience, respond quickly to newbies asking for information by simply telling them to use the Search Feature. Personally, I find that somewhat insulting, and would prefer a direct answer or at least links to relevant threads. This forum hasn’t done that yet and I hope it won’t.

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As an administrator you would need to be willing to edit those past posts. Not editing content but just adding a message/warning notice.

example;
Notice
This post may contain information contradictory to known CCOA facts.
or
this post is the opinion of the original poster and differs from known CCOA information

I am sure you would need many types on messages.

member could use the “report” button to help identify posts.

then assign a panel of CCOA experts to review posts before posting notice.

this would take time, but this site will be around for a long time and may pay off in the long run.

Edit;
this method could also be used to confirm correct info.

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I have seen this too and I would have to agree. Sometimes it’s quite difficult to search through years and years of posts they may not answer a question directly. I always search first but sometimes you just can’t find what you need. I respect those that know the thread it might be in and can find it and post the link. That’s much more helpful then simply responding back with “search”.

I have to say I have not been a part of a more respectful knowledge forum then this one. It’s truly a cut above the rest!

11

Reading through this subject, there’s some great suggestions. Thank goodness that the members of this forum are so good about trying to post the correct information and we do have our resident experts on various topics, be it general Cougar knowledge to specific year and model differences. If anyone has a sequential turn signal issue, we all suggest that they visit Vic’s website for troubleshooting, then come back with specific questions. Royce is always pretty quick with answers on most anything 68, but is another person that has very good info on the XR7-G and GT-E (sometimes I go to respond on G questions and Royce has already beat me to it :astonished: ). The list continues with many other contributors and subjects.
Facebook Cougar groups have no way to search or archive so I often see the same, or similar questions, with incorrect information being propagated by, I’m sure, well meaning people. Every once in a while I will try to correct the information, or give them the proper repair procedure, or what ever, but it is a very time consuming process that many do not appreciate much on that platform.
Maybe something that could be included on the home page of the forum would be to list the people that have specialty information and/or have something that comes up on their posts that recognizes said specialty. Sort of like the “Contributing Member”, or something.

Bill, you do an outstanding job keeping this forum on the straight and narrow, which is a testament on the respect that the users have for you, as well as the other users.

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I forget the site (TCCN or something like that) but it had a great Cougar database. Undoubtingly, it was lost to the either. Something like that should be done before we lose even more sources. If memory serves, there was talk of doing this very thing years ago. All the registries could be linked, the CCOA VIN decoder could be linked and tech tips cataloged.

Yes, as an IT guy, I know this is a massive undertaking but I feel it can reap dividends to the community and ensure real information is preserved.

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How big of a problem is this? Editing can be a time consuming process. To date there are 132763 total post on this site. That’s a lot of information. If a post is edited, will the replies be edited as well? I think continuity within a thread could be lost, creating a bigger issue.
Overall, I feel that this is a wonderful site filled with great information. Can some of that information become dated or inaccurate? Sure it can. That’s why I’m thankful that I can start a thread without being reprimanded by someone saying “this has been covered before”. Most of the many site experts usually answer questions with factual and up to date information pretty quick. And for that, I am thankful many times over.

Bill, you do a wonderful job keeping the Classic Cougar Community an enjoyable meeting place for Cougar enthusiasts. So thank you for all that you do.

Steven

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My 10 year anniversary here at CCC happens on Jan 16. It has been a really fun ride. I have learned so much, from so many of you over the years. Before the CCC, it was MCdot net. Do not even remember what year that started, I was there near the beginning though. They even made me a moderator, LOL. Haven’t logged on in several years, I should probably check my PM’s.
Along with a bunch of you all, I was also on the Yahoo Cougar List Serve. Pretty sure that I was running windows98 at the time.

Like our Cougars, we have persevered as a group. More often than not, we as a group, have solved many conundrums. Sometimes it is like riding in the back seat of a car driven by a really smart kangaroo, we might go up on the curb a couple of times, but we’ll get there in the end. Hopefully.

Lets include Restored, Concours, and Modified to the topic at hand. You ask three different car enthusiasts, and you will get three different definitions of each word. I used to believe that restored and concours were the same thing. To the untrained eye, they look, and appear to be the same. When you really study and learn the details, they become as different as night and day.

When joining in on the topic of discussion, there can be many ‘right’ answers, some are more right than others. What it really comes down to is, what is the desired end result for the original poster?
Al Bundy is working towards a high end, concours restoration of his W code GT-E. He needs to have a Holley list 4088, Ford numbered carburetor with a fairly specific date range. It is generally understood, that Al’s questions here on the forum are mostly very direct and specific to his build. We know Al, and we mostly answer accordingly. Thinking date codes, along with Dearborn assembly line procedures and techniques.
DieselD, on the other hand, is building a fairly modified Cougar. Same year Cougar as Al’s, but more focused on modern touches and technology. I can’t offer much in the way of input. However, I am following along on his build for knowledge and ideas. Sniper EFI technology, is fascinating.

There is no handbook on “How-to-restore your Cougar” at the CCOA, (that I am aware) nor is there a specific comprehensive guide, for judging a Cougar in a thoroughbred concours class. I know that ‘thoroughbred concours’ is not technically a judged class in the Cougar world, but it does exist in other automotive clubs. We should challenge ourselves and kick it up a notch.

Troy said: I may have been here for a very long time but I know one thing: I am no “subject matter expert”.
My wisdom is knowing that I don’t know.
Me too, I know more than the average bear, when it comes to general knowledge about Ford and Cougars from 1965-73. I am still working on my Masters degree in Cougars. Have the BS degree, we all know what BS means. Logically, I should get the PHD too. But that just means the BS is “piled higher, and deeper”. :laughing:

To sum up, I am agreeing with Bill when he said “When it comes to how they were built at the factory we actually know more today than we did 10 years ago.” Imagine how much more we will know 10 years in the future?

15

Some really clear-headed, positive replies in this thread. Having been in rifle handloading forums, niche Mustang forums (Fox body, Mach 1, V6), and even model RR forums this place is practically heaven. The general high level of mental health and friendship is darned commendable!

I try to only reply when I have an actual mechanical or other answer that I can stand behind. That’s why my post count is low, paralleling my knowledge! :laughing: :laughing:

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I love you guys :poke:

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I completely agree that we can’t become one of those forums where the answer is “use the search function”.

There are simply too many different ways (words) to describe what you are looking for and there are too many limitations of the search function itself, for example you can’t search a three letter word (the data base is too big to allow for that). Also very few know the rules for search to know how to write an effective inquiry. Besides, even when you do find a thread it seldom answers all of the questions. What I think is best is when we can point people to a link to thread they need while still addressing their question. Remember this is called a discussion forum.

There are some great points and ideas here. I don’t know that I can edit for a couple of reasons. First off I try to read every post here but that is a huge task that I really can’t keep up with at all times. Second I am not the sole arbiter of what is fact or best practice. I am not sure any one can be. The differences between tools, skill, and ability is unknowable: there is a damn good reason why I don’t paint cars.

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Does any one ever use the main site? If we go back to the very beginning it was supposed to be a repository for information, but it is hardly that. If you have been around since the internet was young you may remember The Classic Cougar Network TCCN. One feature was The EnCata a year by year collection of information. I don’t know where the time would come from to do something like that today but perhaps that is what is needed.

Don Skinner has done a great series of books on our Cougars and they are another resource we should be talking about. The back issues of Legendary Cougar Magazine also have some good information. Unfortunately some of the older Cougar books are the source of the misinformation that just won’t die. What are other good resources? Wikipedia needs our help they still have '69 and '70 induced in generation 1.

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I thought I would throw in there that the CCOA is finishing up a complete revamp of their website.

So be on the lookout for that.

  • Phillip
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Here’s an idea that may not put too much of a burden on our generous host, and doesn’t involve re-inventing the wheel.

Create a subforum for Frequently Asked Questions/best threads.

Have a sticky thread at the top dedicated to nominating other, already existing threads for inclusion in the FAQ section.

Bill or a group of volunteers reviews the nominations and then creates a new thread in the FAQ forum either copying or providing a link to the vetted thread.

For example, we have a fairly extensive thread for all things sequential turn signals. Either copy that thread, or create a new one in the FAQ forum directing people to that thread. Other examples would be “my low fuel light stays on even with key off,” pertronix install, biggest wheels that won’t rub, etc.

P.S. I totally agree with others - we are blessed with a very courteous, welcoming and helpful forum here. Try stamp collecting sometime… stamp collecting! Inflated egos over little scraps of paper.