Sal, As Mike has pointed out, the FelPro 1240 is what to use on the intake and use the Right stuff on the ends along with the cork (I think it’s cork) that they supply for the ends. I have a link or picture of what Mike is talking about with the turkey pan. I will post it if I can find it.
Also the FelPro exhaust gaskets are number 1430
One thing that isn’t clear, Are you using a cast iron 4V intake? If so, that is a problem and really don’t think your going to get it to seal. The angle of the mating faces of the head and the intake on the original 4V engine are different from the 2V. So if your trying to put a case iron 4V intake on a 2V head, you will have problems. Your going to have to use something like the Edelbrock Performer intake number 2750 for example. The angle is correct to match the 2V head and it is a 4V intake with 2V runners.
Dennis
A couple of comments. First, I have sworn off ends seals, cork are better, rubber terrible, but Ultra Black RTV is my seal of choice. Too many problems with the ends seals coming out, leaking, etc. Ultra Black: dry.
On the manifold, it looks like he is using a 2V ported Aluminum manifold. 1240’s are right if you don’t want to use the bathtub, I chose the 1240’s for my Air Gap because I purposely wanted hot oil on the bottom of the manifold to partially make up for the lack of an exhaust crossover (was worried about plenum icing under certain conditions).
With an exhaust crossover equipped manifold, I like to use the bathtub gasket. Not sure I like Mike’s idea of cutting back the tub though, depending on where you made the cut, oil could build up in the tub if it is not sealed at the head intake surfaces. If it is sealed at the head intake surfaces, why not use the gasket the way it is intended to be used? So, a little confused about that. Mike, any comment?
Finally, you can in fact use a 4V ported manifold on 2V heads, you just need to use 4V gaskets (and accept the huge port mismatch). This in fact is what Cleveland guys were doing with 2V headed C’s before Edlebrock and the like became available.
Oh, and the intake surface angle of the heads are the same, 2V or 4V, never heard that one before, it is not the case.
Bob, it is just something I was told many years ago. When I tried to put the 4V on mine, It just wouldn’t work well. I accept that I may be wrong on the angle thing, but the mismatch thing, not good.
I really does help though to use guide pins when using the FelPro gaskets.
I am using an original Cast Iron 4V intake Manifold 1971and a 4330 4 barrel carburetor on a 2V 1970 Cleveland all rebuilt.
Finally, you can in fact use a 4V ported manifold on 2V heads, you just need to use 4V gaskets (and accept the huge port mismatch). This in fact is what Cleveland guys were doing with 2V headed C’s before Edlebrock and the like became available.
Bob, I remember your post on the other site when I was attempting to turn my motor into a 4 barrel and still keep the somewhat original look of the motor.
It looks like it will work except that when I walk into NAPA or Carquest, these guys have no clue to what part I need, they just know how to sell it.
Finally, I do have an Edelbrock Performer LB 351 4-V aluminum intake that I could use but it would use the same gasket that the original cast iron gasket would use and I would loose the original feel of the car.
I have ordered the Felpro Q1228 gasket that Mike suggested and will cut the pan that Ialready have along with loping the heads off some threaded bolts.
Good information, I just wish I would have fitted the pan over the intake before I torqued the bolts and installed the engine, you can clearly see that I would not work.
A good learning experience for next time. SalD Cougar GEEK
Yeah, the port mismatch is certainly far from ideal, but people used to do it “back in the day”. As for the pins, you pretty much have to have them when you are putting on a bathtub gasket.
I am concerned about this. How do you lop off the port part and still get the pan sealed? If the pan isn’t sealed, oil will end up building up in the pan. Lopping off just the top of the port section and leaving the bottom part (meaning the port gaskets will have pan under part of them and not in the other, upper part).
Personally, I think that if you are going to use the pan, you should buy a 4V bathtub gasket set complete and use everything but the end seals.
Having said that, I don’t think Mike would steer you wrong though, so I look forward to hearing what he has to say about it all (after all my blathering!).
LOL Sal, that’s one way of doing it I suppose! Personally, I have never had an issue with getting the tub to seal properly but it is of course your call. The tub gasket comes with thin gaskets you put against the heads, then the tub (which has ribs) and then the manifold. The kit also comes (or did) with some green shellac sort of stuff (that I used to autograph my build!):
PS Sorry I was “ignant” and did not look at the links (I didn’t even notice them!).
Bob, using the 4V gaskets on the 2V heads would be a problem. It should be the other way around. 2V heads, 2V gasket, 4V cast iron intake. It’s still not the best but it will work. In the link that I posted, Tapatalk - Free Forum Hosting, Free Forum Mobile App.
You can see that there isn’t much port left at the bottom of the head before entering the valley. If you use a 4V gasket, you will possibly expose the valley.
Sal, They don’t cost much, just get a
Edelbrock Performer 4V to match the 2V heads and your problems are over.
Bob, the turkey pan/bath tub gasket, I have never seen one come with anything other than the pan it’s self. I have one new in a package right now and there is no other gaskets with it. It’s a Victor Reinz MS 15815 the other number below that on the label is MS 96012.
I have pulled these a number of times, and seen only the pan.
I have a VICTOR DANA MS15815 The SQU # 75752203982
It would be too short. Think VICTOR is a Car Quest brand
I just called NAPA and spoke to manager and they don’t list a intake manifold gasket for a M code 351 C. I’ve ran into this previously with them. If it’s not in their system, it don’t exist. A cleveland? What’s the year? Vin? All I got is Windsor,H code, Ya sure it’s not Q?
We could both wish it was aQ, but that will never happen!
It would be a “Q” if it were a 72 or 73. They all used the same gaskets from 70 to 73, just had different engine codes. If you were to tell them 71-73 M or Q code, I am sure they could find it.
The heads are not the issue with the gaskets, it’s the intakes. They both have the same floor height, it’s the sides and tops that are different, so you would need the 4V gaskets for the 4V intake.
Sal, you could always use the aluminum intake and paint it blue, they look similar to the factory intakes when painted anyway.
And yes, the links shown are what I was talking about with the pan gasket, but I never trimmed so much away. I always cut them to the shape of the bottoms of the heads and popped a couple of holes in the bottom.
Sorry Dennis, its the other, other way 'round (as Mike was saying and what you see Sal is doing). 4V manifold, 4V gaskets regardless of heads.
So Sal is going to have that mismatch we have been speaking about (and you can see it with the gaskets I have been talking about glued to the heads), I think it will be just fine though.
P.S. DANGER, Sal, DANGER!!! Gasket cement and rubber valley end seals! DANGER! RTV Ultra Black and NO valley end seals are the way to go and my hearty recommendation.
Bob, yup you were right. I was checking out on the 335 forum and found out that it was the 4V gaskets to use. Glad Sal took your advice.
Sal, The Black RTV or the Right Stuff should be used on the ends. On the 355 forum it has been said, when you put it on, (silicone) you should let is set for a few minutes to skin over a bit before putting the intake on.
Whew! Glad we’re all in “violent agreement” then. Is curious why Sal did not go for the Edelbrock 2750 though. Or perhaps the Aussie 302C manifold, but think that might be spread bore. It’ll work though.
