Question to Royce, why does the block have a date of 7G1. and heads date 8B2 with N code. seems like the early block would have J heads.
The block was cast seven months before the heads, don’t seem right.
Not Royce, but the 427 SO blocks were cast before the big strike in Fall 1967. My GT-E has it’s original engine and the block has a Jul '67 cast date. The 6090-J heads were cast in early 1968.
Commoner checking in here. I have no problem with how this all went down. Doesn’t change my opinion of Royce or Jim one iota: I hold them both in high regard.
What’s all the fuss about GTEs anyway? Without A/C, who cares how fast your car is? Best to stick with R Codes, LOL.
Crazy talk going on here, I bought my GT-E in PA in 2014. We tracked it down privately, but we soon realized that Jim knew about the 427 XR7 Cardinal red semi-survivor and the family situation of the deceased owner. Jim was awesome educating me about the car before I bought it. He helped me understand build dates, part numbers, VIN stamping locations and such so I could make sure that it was a numbers matching car. He continues to help me, even over this past weekend. He responded to an email that I sent him in a few hours. When I was thinking about selling it, Jim helped by providing a ballpark price and connected me with a potential people of interest. I finally met Jim at Ford Carlisle last year and I don’t know how does it, but he made time to talk with everyone and answer everyone’s questions. If he got a good deal, good for him, good things should happen to good people. he traded $60k for an old car and took all the risks involved. I would suggest that we not use this site for bashing, there are other sites for that. It is a great site for those who have it, to share knowledge and for those looking for it, like me, to get more of it.
Several years ago a very prominent person in the Cougar community was offered a GTE project from a senior citizen who had owned it for decades. The seller came up with the price and the buyer gave an enthusiastic “YES!”. Seller sleeps on it and decides to reach out to a trusted local club member in TX (Royce Peterson) and asks “am I doing the right thing? I am not connected to the internet and am not up on current values…” Royce set him straight and let him know the car was now worth multiples of what he was asking. I have watched Jim do the same and I too have insisted on giving folks more than they were asking because in the end we have to sleep and we have a reputation that took a long time to build. I again will point to the green GTE in Canada right now that is very original and has been for sale for weeks now at $85k with no sale, this red car cannot possibly be worth as much can it? I have a feeling that if you barraged the sellers with market info and asked “Would you like to back out of the deal now?” They would still be fine with what was offered.
In all seriousness though, I can’t think of a better person to own this GT-E, and do it justice, than Jim. I don’t see anything wrong with how this happened. I understand the frustration, though, when from the outside it might look like an “inside deal”, but clearly this is what the sellers wanted, and both parties are happy. Looking forward to seeing it get fixed up!
I have a question to Royce or Jim. Why did the owner choose to not rebuild the original W-code 427 after it threw a rod on the trip from CA? He chose to have a “NASCAR” type 427 MR built engine instead.
Was it because he was looking for considerably more HP?
I really don’t know for sure, maybe the subject came up when Royce spoke with them.
Now I’m hungry for popcorn.
I think at the time (1972) the thought was to get it back on the road as quickly as possible, so he bought what was available through the local Ford dealer. They had just moved to Oklahoma from California and the Cougar was still being used as a daily driver.
Because the Medium Riser would not fit the stock exhaust manifolds he ordered a set of Hooker adjustable race headers with huge primary pipes.
At some point the decision was made that the car was better in stock form, so he had the original short block rebuilt. Right about that time a cousin borrowed the battery for another car. When he returned the battery he installed it backwards. Then when they tried to start the GT-E the reversed polarity at the alternator caused the entire wiring harness from the engine compartment to the under dash area to melt, smoke, and then nothing worked any more.
That is why the car exists in its relatively decent state today. No one wanted to change the entire wiring harness on the car.
Wow…what a story. Thanks for that explanation Royce.
How can you compare a SUPER original red/red, low mile, dry climate,1-owner GTE to a restored green/parch GTE? Royce described it as the best original ever seen, and I believe him. And it is common knowledge, now days, that original cars are worth much more than restored cars. Look at the auction results of rare survivors cars of late. The red Robie car is in a class of its own—for originality, history and color—it should NEVER–EVER be restored except with soap, water and WD40 where possible. Sadly, I guess I am an outsider—a deplorable, outsider, “vulture” in this community. Well, for sure I am not a hero worshiper and the people I know and deal with respect me. I have always rolled as a semi-loner earning my own racing stripes—that’s the old fashioned way. I don’t want to fight anyone of you, we all love the same thing…cool old Cougars. These great cars and the many friendships they bring me have improved my life beyond words. The best thing in life besides love is good friends and challenging work we adore…like restoring cool Cougars. And in working towards that, we should all be equal to compete in any community in America…and that is all I have ever expected from this great country…aaaand maybe a GTE like the Robies. Sadly again, I suppose I will keep looking…45 years, 46 years, 47…
FWIW, I’d like to add a few thoughts and generalities from my pretty extensive experience of being very active in this, the Classic Cougar Community.
I have no idea what the actual details are of this particular transaction, but I do know -
By a huge margin, this is a welcoming and accepting community. It’s up to each of us as individuals, as to whether or not we become an insider, outsider, elitist, commoner, loner, leader, follower, helper, obstacle, facilitator, hoarder, sharer, etc., etc.
Being a Registrar is a tremendous amount of work and responsibility. I know I would never choose to be one and given the responsibilities of the job, I don’t see how it is even possible to not make some enemies every once-in-awhile.
- Phillip
Curiosity kills the cat… did the original prospective buyer end up with the car?
As Membership Director for the CCOA, I often get contacted by people looking to sell their cars. Fortunately, I’ve never faced the ethical dilemma of wanting to buy what they were selling (well, once, but the seller had unrealistic price in mind so it was a moot point). I typically refer them to the CCOA classified ads or this forum.
Note to anyone wanting this “insider” job: Nominations are open for several CCOA Board seats and you can nominate yourself. As Scott and Randy have mentioned, the door is open if you’re willing to contribute your time and passion.
The whole idea of messing with old cars is to have fun doing it. If it stops being fun, then take a break. None of this is life or death. These are just rusty, mostly worn out, old cars that mean what they do because of what is inside each of us. Some of them are less common than others and and it is fun to see or drive or even own one. The stories, the history, and the people that lived the experience are as important as the sheet metal.
If you really want to experience the benefits of being an insider, its all free and right here for the most part. Read about the Local Hero, a car passed down from grandfather to grandson and lovingly cared for for decades. Or if testing your ability to accomplish not just the improbable, but maybe the impossible, read about the resurrection of Isabel. Or the strange tale of Cougar 1’s discovery and restoration. These are the things that make this a community. We have a very odd set of shared values, check out the previous Ride of the Month winners and you can see exactly what I am talking about.
I hope I get a chance to interview the Robies that kept this GT-E for 50 years. What was going on in 1968 that made them decide the car to buy was this GT-E? They could have bought a loaded Galaxy or even a Thunderbird or possibly a Corvette, why the Cougar? Why didn’t their kids (who would be very close to my age) want the car? I want to know the rest of the story.
You might have a point… The red car is a wild card and I agree it may ultimately have more potential than the green car but the two of them put on ebay on the same day, one turn key and one with cooked wiring, crispy interior, mice nests and the like may or may not bring $80k on the red car. If the sellers did not want to deal with ebay, shippers and brokers, $60k was a fair wholesale bid with a transparent buyer who will bring the car back to life better than anyone they could of met and they have met many over the years. As for this being the best survivor out there? Not even close… I know where much nicer ones are and Jim does too.
It can’t be considered a Barn Find either. The car was reported to the Registrar by the nephew in 2005. It was kept a secret though. Nobody found it.
The lady even makes a statement that she’s unaware who’s actually buying the car. Say what.
Also I understand making up all this hype about this car , but personally why not just keep it all under wraps. Document all the info to prove what it is.
Then bring it all out when the car is ready. Save me all the BS though.
I just hope we don’t see this GTE on the Auction block with certain people asking for the World. Such as Cougar #1 ( which is why it’s not sold yet )
But then again that’s what all the Hype is for. I get it.
Just remember this guys , when you call other prospective buyers Vultures ; you are speaking of yourselves.
I’ll add this too,
To all the Guys on here in the circle jerk Round Table, pull up your knee pads and get yourselves more napkins. Have at it. Sickening
Jeez COUGARSHARK take it easy!! These kind of comments are not appropriate.
Some sellers are not comfortable selling long held possessions, even when they have made the decision to do it. They want to make sure that it is going to someone that is going to take care of it and love it like they do. They don’t want or need top dollar, they just need peace of mind. In Jim that is exactly what they are going to get. Heck Jim hasn’t even seen the car yet in person. He bought it based on a pretty detailed description provided by another passionate Cougar enthusiast whom is a very trusted resource to know what is and is not correct on these cars. That original 427 SO, was not guaranteed to be able to be returned to the car fully operational, so there is definitely a big risk there.
If not for the GT-E registry this car may have deteriorated to nothing, but it is now seeing the light of day and it is going to be loved and appreciated.
These personal attacks are not what this forum should be about. We collect information on the cars we love, and help others to collect information to help them in their projects.
We don’t have to love each other, but we all deserve respect. No matter if you agree or not. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you don’t need to try to bully or shame/ridicule others in theirs.
Let’s all take a nice deep breath.
You ever play Hockey
Some times people need to be Checked per say , or they will continue to do as they wish. Get it. Good
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