In preferring shorties over long-tube headers I expressed that I really didn’t want any ground clearance problems.
The shop is using a Magna-Flow kit.
Part: MagnaFlow Street Series Performance Exhaust Systems for
1967-1970 MUSTANG - 15816
Does a Cougar convertible need a custom exhaust?
How the shop put it:
“Not a big deal. Muffler config will come down to what will actually fit, once we get there. The shorty headers will fit the bill - Long tubes won’t make a really noticable increase vs the shorty headers… on a dyno, maybe - but in a car, negligible gain. Out general goal with exhaust installs overall is to keep things up and tight as much as we can. That said, we will mod the kit where needed to get it where it makes the most sense without breaking the bank with a full custom system.”
The shop strives to keep the exhaust “up and tight”. I don’t think the shop will route the exhaust below the plate and tell me it’s fine.
The Mustang exhaust kits do not fit Cougar out of the box. The wheel base is different and over the axle geometry is different. These semi custom kits are all different so there is no way to say specifically what exactly will be the issue. Generally the factory style H pipe works for both Cougar and Mustang. The center extensions have the curves for the muffler input arriving a bit too soon placing the mufflers too close to the front of the car. The mufflers do not reach the factory style hangers. The over the axle curves are too broad and the pipe doesn’t have the correct angle to the tail pipes. A good shop can definitely rework the pieces and make extensions and so on to make it work. It looked like your estimate indicated a budget for the rework.
One thing that does happen is that it is tempting to rotate the extensions between the H pipe and the mufflers down ward to get a straighter shot at the mufflers. This will cause interference with the mid plate. It is not a difficult fix but be sure the final fit occurs with the mid plate installed. The pipes make one hell of a racket if the touch that plate. You will feel it in the seats.
@Felis_Fidelis I have enjoyed this thread and I wish you the best on your project. I also applaud you for putting your money down and seeing how it goes. Please report back. “You must use the OEM bendix stuff and Chocko for steering, no exceptions”… “You do not need power brakes, of any kind”… “Dammit, Jim: No one needs EFI and you’re dealing with forces you can’t possibly comprehend!”, “Roller perches, Wagner PCV and Zray’s crossmember will shave off 5 seconds a lap”. LOL. There’s so much group think on car forums I am often reminded of the Five Monkey’s story. Live and live let live, folks. It’s his money. And I’d spend 10x as much time talking to him about his car than I would looking at my one-millionth concours-correct car.
I agree. To each his own is my favorite line of thinking on these cars. I’m not interested in a stock restoration for my use. If that’s your thing, cool!
I contacted the manufacturer, Schneider Cams (Schneider Racing Cams: Performance Proven Cams & Components), who confirmed the tie bars were supposed to be on the valley side, but that if it was a problem it would have already manifested, and that it’d probably be okay. I asked if it’d affect the warranty.
Warranty is void if parts are installed wrong.
I would flip them
In a few thousand miles there’s been no noticeable problem. Now it’s at the new shop, getting worked on as per this thread’s topic.
I’ll have to take the Cougar back to the old shop and see what they want to do. Even though the manufacture won’t warranty the valvetrain, I sort of doubt they’ll cheerfully volunteer to flip the tie bars. I’m apprehensive that in the work, they’d end up making it worse, somehow. I imagine the work could be done competently by the shop it’s at now, but that’d be 6 hours of labor that neither I nor the old shop would want to pay for.
Are any of these good options? Any other options out there?
Ask/insist that the old shop correct the tie bar orientation problem.
Do nothing but document the problem to the old shop and have them extend their warranty.
Have the new shop flip the tie rods and try to get the old shop to pay for it, but if need be pay for it myself.
If it were me, I would have the new shop flip them. I sure wouldn’t give the old shop the opportunity to mess up again and take forever doing it. I’m anxious to see how your Cleveland performs with these latest mods!
I would go with option #3. The old shop has already proven how they work. I would be concerned that they would not do the job properly and they might even do something out of spite just because. You seem happy with the new shop and how they work. So do you want to have that nagging feeling that something else is going to go wrong or do you want to feel confident in the work that was done? How much is peace of mind worth to you? Go with #3.
If it’s a cinch, then I should have the old shop do it, but they couldn’t get it right the first time. I asked ChatGPT what it would take, and doesn’t seem that much of a cinch, would probably be 6 hours, and the shop charges $195 per hour. If only sharp-eyed @EliminatorClone hadn’t pointed the tie bars out, I’d have driven in ignorant bliss, until something went wrong and I’d be up a creek.
Ballpark: ~4–6 shop hours if nothing fights them.
Why that range
• Valve covers off, rockers/pushrods out: 0.8–1.2 h
• Intake off & surfaces cleaned (351C intake is “dry,” so no coolant drain): 1.0–1.5 h
• Flip 8 link-bar pairs (keep each on its original lobes), check bar/block clearance: 0.5–0.8 h
• Re-install intake w/ new gaskets & RTV end seals, torque: 0.6–0.8 h
• Pushrods/rockers back on, set hydraulic preload, valve covers: 1.0–1.3 h
• Rehook carb/linkages/PCV/vacuum, quick timing verify & run-in: 0.3–0.5 h
Add time if the intake is stuck, studs are seized, or if they pull the distributor (often done for access): +0.3–0.5 h. If they also clean/paint or replace gaskets/hardware, tack on accordingly.
I wouldn’t take the car back to a shop that held me hostage for 4 years under any circumstances. My question would be 1. What is the cam builders warranty? 2. How much have you run car with lifters run with tie bars reversed? IMO most aftermarket warranties don’t amount to much and mfg comment on warranty might be more of a CYA than an issue with tie bar position. If car has been run several thousand miles, I’d get more opinions but likely leave it alone. Keeping lifters on same cam lobes to me would be important. I’d also finish your project with new shop and be satisfied before I looked for them to do additional work.
I know tie bars being reversed is a problem in small blocks because the coolant jacket webbing bulges in between lifters. The Cleveland doesn’t look that way, so I’m not sure I’d worry about it. My deciding factor would be cutting an oil filter apart and checking for magnetic debris. If you have debris, take it apart. No debris, back to ignorant bliss. I thought the project still had the intake off, sorry to cause the alarm, but i have a curse for noticing details. This photo is why you have to pay attention to reversal on a small block. On a Dart block, like my Eliminator clone, the lifters don’t even fit reversed
Cleveland guys correct me if I am wrong. I haven’t worked on a Cleveland since I sold the Pantera.
I recall that the Cleveland has a dry intake meaning your don’t have to drain the radiator to pull the intake. If that is correct then this is really a pretty pleasant job. I would definitely pull the intake and see if there is contact.
As long as they don’t touch anything on the back wall, there is no issue… they can be installed either way.
If there was an issue with them touching the back wall, we would hear it.
I’d leave it alone.
I think that’s a sensible answer. I could see where some shops might exaggerate the risk for CYA and to upsell more hours. This advice gives me confidence in the do-nothing strategy.
At a bear minimum I would use an engine stethoscope to give it a listen. That is really deep in lifter valley and the noise would be very muffled. It is not striking anything so it would not be percussive. It would be rubbing diagonally so sort of a scraping sound and essentially rubbing against the block
Forgive me for being ignorant, are the tie bars you’re referring to the silver plates on the push rods? Should they be facing towards the inside of the block?
